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Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
East India Company and the British Empire's other cronies died for the government we desired to govern the people and work for their best interests. But, tell me first, what do you take out of the Thomas Paine quote I had?
The people should govern the government. If we are not doing that we're screwed. The government of today has only this interest, keep 'em deaf, dumb, blind and stupid, it guarantees us our money, the people work for us.
As for as Thomas Paine he spoke of government during his life, during his time, in society. Much has changed since then.
What are you getting at, exactly...?
We can't even define the type of government we have today.
The people should govern the government. If we are not doing that we're screwed. The government of today has only this interest, keep 'em deaf, dumb, blind and stupid, it guarantees us our money, the people work for us.
As for as Thomas Paine he spoke of government during his life, during his time, in society. Much has changed since then.
What are you getting at, exactly...?
We can't even define the type of government we have today.
That is because we don't have government run and controlled by the people, but by corporations. Why else do you think corporate entities spend millions on political elections, compared to you as a person?
Thomas Paine wasn't speaking of the government that existed, he was speaking of what a government must do to ensure a thriving nation that respects the rights of all. The quote is from "Rights of Man" published in 1792.
I can give you an example, though I can't give a cite for it because it didn't exactly make the news. (It's a personal experience from my life.)
When my boys were small, we had to take them for 'counseling' because of some problems they were causing in school. This counselor had no real world experience with children - no children of her own - but was determined that the disciplinary 'methods' she had learned in her college courses were 'better' than the ones we used. HAD to be better because that's what she was taught. Well guess what? The 'methods' she tried to teach us had NO effect on our children's behavior, but when we went back to the ways we'd previously used, the kids' behavior improved!
(Oh! And she spent an awful lot of time 'berating' us for not taking childcare classes before becoming parents. I didn't need those - had spent my teen years taking care of others' children and helping my mother with younger siblings. IOW, she seemed to 'look down on' people who didn't have her level of 'education'.)
When it comes to kids, I agree that the best counselors have kids themselves. In fact, I was listening to a story on NPR one time about this issue, and the speaker said that if you are looking for a counselor for your kids, choose one that has kids of his/her own. That's not to say that anyone who has kids is qualified to be a counselor, IMO.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
That is because we don't have government run and controlled by the people, but by corporations. Why else do you think corporate entities spend millions on political elections, compared to you as a person?
Thomas Paine wasn't speaking of the government that existed, he was speaking of what a government must do to ensure a thriving nation that respects the rights of all. The quote is from "Rights of Man" published in 1792.
Thank you for the clarity. You are debating with someone or talking with some one who does not define terms in words, but in end results.
In my gov class, what do the dems think, what do the repubs. think?, was the question posed and I was called on to answer....I don't care what the group thinks, I want to know what the nut behind the wheel, what he is thinking, because that is the person the group is focused on. If he changes his mind, the group will follow course.
So when I look at types of government, I really can't think. A wall gets put up and I can get through it. I never could...but, I can by observation obtain what the end result was and if it is a good end or a bad end.
Now you say that the corporations run the government, I'll by that for a buck. The community organizer got his votes from non-profits all across America, because he was going to line their pockets. And he did it.
Now, from an individual stand point a person must decide if they can do anything about those corporations or not. If a person decides to take them on, then become the 'nut' behind the wheel, where those who follow the lead, can walk in step.
However, from a society point and where education is concerned, at some point, they will have to look that the end result, decide if the same thing they have been doing is producing or reducing, take a hold of the wheel and turn it. To keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, now that a society who is insane.
Liberals are always talking about the value of a college education, when they fail to realize that for many majors, (generally the majors most leftists major in like art, philosophy, gender studies, basket weaving, protesting), there is absolutely no value.
Want to be an electrician? Go right ahead, but first, you better get a 4-year degree or else you're a loser. Just major in history....or er um something, by the way, here's 23,000 of debt.
If everyone get's a bachelor's degree, then they aren't really unique anymore are they?
I have no issue with encouraging some form of post-secondary education, but is a 4-year university the only type that's worthwhile?
Everyone should have the opportunity to go, or be able to access the opportunities to go.
Now you say that the corporations run the government, I'll by that for a buck. The community organizer got his votes from non-profits all across America, because he was going to line their pockets. And he did it.
I hear this all the time as if corporations and non-profit lobbying is the same but it's a false equivalence.
Corporations contribute to campaigns and back certain candidates for their own self-interests and to profit directly by pushing legislation that benefits them. Non-profits are cause based organizations interested in helping make the world better. Exxon-Mobil and the Conservation Society may both lobby but one is interested in its own profit and the other is trying to maintain wildlife refuges for future generations. I contend they are widely different.
You Right Wingers will use any angle to discourage education and intellectualism. What an embarrassment.
In recent decades the expensive college degree replaced the "free" high school diploma as the standard for all workers, and the entire nation has suffered as a result. Middle Class families lost enough thanks to wage stagnation since the 1970s. It does not require a college degree to work at McDonalds, and we reduce all Americans when we have an over-educated workforce and government and business policies that constantly reduce the number of jobs the growing population is fighting for.
You can be extremely self-educated and intellectual simply by investigating all topics that interest you, thinking critically and logically, and participating in discussions of topics of interest.
You do not need need the degree or diploma provided by a college or university to thrive in the vast majority of modern jobs.
As a nation, we would be far better served by an education system that served the job force, and government that served the working class instead of the ultra-rich, and a business community that understood that bankrupting the workforce would inevitably result in destroying the entire nation.
In recent decades the expensive college degree replaced the "free" high school diploma as the standard for all workers, and the entire nation has suffered as a result. Middle Class families lost enough thanks to wage stagnation since the 1970s. It does not require a college degree to work at McDonalds, and we reduce all Americans when we have an over-educated workforce and government and business policies that constantly reduce the number of jobs the growing population is fighting for.
I don't see the cause and effect. I don't think the loss of well-paying manufacturing jobs had anything to do with increasing college education levels.
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