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The fallacy of your statement is that the Germany is seen tremendous growth in exports and it's buoyed their economy. They have the most robust economy in Western Europe right now.
Why?
German compnanies MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION NOT TO EXPORT HIGH TECH MANUFACTURING TO OTHER COUNTRIES. Also the government, labor unions and corporations WORK TOGETHER to form national economic policy.
AND THE PERCENTAGE OF UNION GERMAN WORKERS IS MORE THAN DOUBLE THAT OF U.S.
The bottom line is that corporations have sold out the United States of America. If they are going to make record profits and continue to shed workers and export jobs then hell yes they should be force to pay higher taxes.
I find it ironic that Conservatives have no problem telling the poor or kids going to college on grants to do with less but will fight like hell to let the people who are benefitting the most from outsourcing and government tax subsidies to keep more while they do less in society.
The Germans don't have a huge class of violent citizens who feel that they should be handed everything on a silver platter either.
i guess you are talking about the uber wealthy, the ones that have taken 400% income increases in the last 30 years while the middle class has seen ZERO growth in their wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
The Germans don't have a huge class of violent citizens who feel that they should be handed everything on a silver platter either.
The tax the rich theme is not a mantra. It is based on a core principle of capitalism that goes back as far as Adam Smith and which has been fully endorsed by Theodore Roosevelt - a great Republican president. That theme is a fair and progressive tax system is essential for capitalism to exist and for there to be social stability. There is no benefit to the individual or the nation for large wealth to remain untaxed while people go hungry and without proper basic medical care and housing. It is not socialistic since those who work still reap the benefits of their labor and their capital.
The tax the rich theme is not a mantra. It is based on a core principle of capitalism that goes back as far as Adam Smith and which has been fully endorsed by Theodore Roosevelt - a great Republican president. That theme is a fair and progressive tax system is essential for capitalism to exist and for there to be social stability. There is no benefit to the individual or the nation for large wealth to remain untaxed while people go hungry and without proper basic medical care and housing. It is not socialistic since those who work still reap the benefits of their labor and their capital.
Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive.
This is socialism.....
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
As far as the rich not paying their "fair share", isn't it "fair" that the top 5% pay 60% of the tax burden?
Is it "fair" that the bottom 46% pay zero? And, some of them get money back!
Back in their day unions tended to raise wages for all workers, if employers didn't pay fair wages employees would form a union or move off and take a job where there was a union and better wages.
first off, go educate yourself, manufacturing wages in the United States rose 57% between 1860-1890 and another 34% between 1891-1914. Adjusted for inflation.
This is when about 2% of the work force was union. There were no laws protecting unions or workers in general. And millions and millions of union workers were leaving Western Europe to work in non-union America.
Unions wre started to keep blacks and Asians from taking jobs from white people. They have never been about raising wages. In fact, they supress wages.
And look at Mexico. Workers there quit on companies in a heart beat becasue another company comes along and offers more pay and/or better conditions. Talk to anyone that runs a manufacturing plant in Mexico. They are very frustated because they can't keep people.
People tend to get way too caught up in ideological and partisan debates, mostly controlled by those that have financial interests in treating people like mushrooms.
The popular themes.
Tax the rich and we will all prosper
Tax the rich and we'll lose jobs
Lower taxes and we'll be ok
Unions are the evil that bring us down
Unions are great for everyone.
All hogwash.
Without a strong, vibrant middle class, no country thrives. Disposable income is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. If my customers don't have enough disposable income, my company will not thrive. Taxes are not my problem (unless punitive), demand is.
When people talk about government workers, teachers, whomever the middle class evil of the day might be, they are talking about mostly middle class consumers. The ones that buy products, services, go out to eat, vacation, buy cars, boats, whatever. They Drive the economy. If wealthy business owners or large corporations see increased demand, they need to either
1) Increase productivity through investment
2) Hire more workers to satisfy demand
3) A combination of both
When a company sees that the labor force is hungry for jobs, wages go down. When assisted by government, they will squash worker unions and drive their own wages down. When you follow up on these businesses, most of them increase dividends, bank the cash, buyback stock. Supply and demand is what it's all about. Increase disposable income amongst your largest base of consumers, and demand grows. Always has been that way, always will.
Demand increased last decade when two things happened.
1) Tax cuts for poor and middle class workers.
2) Relaxed standards, low interest rates, and the housing industry boomed (This was not a good thing)
Yes, government has to become leaner and smarter. Useless programs need to be eliminated so taxes can legitimately be cut. Right now, tax revenues as a percent of GDP are at a 50 or 60-year low. A bit out of whack.
The largest programs and budget items needing work are defense and medicare. Tens of billions can also be cut from useless and/or wasteful programs. However, the economy is still a patient out of critical care, and under observation. Anything that's done to hurt the consumer class will further hurt the patient. Jobs that once paid $25 an hour in many cases now pay $12 an hour with lower benefits. Many of these companies are in great shape now, but their consumers are not. It's a big world out there, and one ideology thinking will further hamper it.
first off, go educate yourself, United States Unemployment Rate The unemployment rate NEVER AVERAGED 4% under any recent president.
I suspect the high unemployment under Obama has something to do with that GREAT RECESSION of Bush's that began in late 2007
Yeah, I meant 5%. Typo.
When Bill Clinton was President unemployment averaged 5.2%
When George Bush was President unemployment averaged 5.26%.
Under Barack Obama? 9.45%.
Blame Bush all you want. He isn't President any longer. Obama has not overturned any major economic policies of the Bush Administration. Not one. Therefore, this is Obama's economy.
Imagine your an evil rich person who hires and fires people at an evil private company.
You want to tax the bejeezus out of this awful rich guy because its not fair that he has so much money.
But you also want him not to pick up and move his company to a low tax country like Singapore because those fat union jobs (and union due$) would disappear too, thus making the union bosses less powerful.
Can't you see the bind Mr. evil entrepreneur is in?
Maybe in his cold, black heart there is a spark of warmth. Perhaps he would like to remain in New York or California but the 35% corporate tax rate (passed by liberals in the state legislature who receive massive campaign funds from unions) makes it impossible for him to compete with other companies. (I know in your utopian world there is no economic competition and the State decides which favored company shall prevail, but bear with me...)
Why not lower taxes a bit so he can bring those jobs back to America. Sure that would be a little less money with which the Democratic party can play with and dole out to favored special interests but why chase him away with taxes?
Dear OP,
The rich got to keep the Bush tax cuts, where are the jobs??
The truth is tax cuts for rich people don't stimulate industries that require mass consumption. Industries that hire lots of workers.
Additionally, it is the conservative claim that its not the job of rich people to hire others, its their job to run a business.
Example:
A factory owner makes textiles (still seen in the U.S.). If only 10 people can afford to buy some new clothes then there is little demand, he isn't going to have many workers. However if 10,000 people can afford to buy new clothes, he's going to do some hiring to keep up with demand.
So why should the factory owner get a tax break??? He's not going to create jobs with it. He's going to use it to maximize his profits. Cause whats the point in hiring when there isn't work to be done???
If evil Mr. Corporation wants his tax cuts, he should start hiring in the U.S. If not then he can expect taxes so the government can create jobs, which will increase consumers, increase product demand, and thus lead to him getting more business and hiring more workers. He can't have low taxes and cheap workers because before long the workers will rise up and through some means, his party will end. Its happened before and it will happen again.
I'm not saying evil Mr. Corporation shouldn't get the nicest house , best car etc. He has more responsibility, and he should get those things. However he doesn't need 10 or 20 of those things, and he shouldn't get those at the expense of everyone else who goes and works hard and help him to make all his money. Shouldn't those people be able to get through life without deciding between food and rent and gas? Again Mr. Corporation deserves to make the most, but it doesn't need to be the most at the expense of the rest of us.
If evil Mr. Corporation can't learn to share in the sacrifice (which in this recession, it doesn't lok like he has), then maybe he should go do business where there is no government and he is free to exploit the workers and citizens as he likes. I hear Somalia is nice this time of year, good sailing weather
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