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Old 05-22-2011, 08:34 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,292,271 times
Reputation: 2337

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Quote:
Originally Posted by handog View Post
Perhaps you should spend less time Paddling the pickle and more time reading the Constitution and Unpatriotic Act.

Your 4th amendment freedom from unreasonable search and seizure has been lost for starters.
What good is the 4th Amendment to someone content to live in a prison cell?
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:36 PM
 
950 posts, read 1,511,811 times
Reputation: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
What good is the 4th Amendment to someone content to live in a prison cell?
Who is living in a prison cell ?
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,394,315 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
I'm a fairly liberal guy but I've never understood all the whinnig about the patriot act. I've never heard of anyone having any negative personal experiences as a direct result of the patriot act. Has anybody? If you're doing nothing wrong it appears that you'll be just fine which is true for about 99% of the population. It's been in effect for several years and I hear so many complain about it but nobody that's actually been effected by it. It sort of goes hand and hand with airport body scanners and/or pat downs. THe extra 1-2 minutes it takes me to take my shoes and belt off has never caused me any trauma but I hear so many whine incessantly about it. Well, that's until something goes BOOM..Anyway, just my thoughts, flame away at your leisure.
Everybody you know has been negatively affected by the Patriot Act. Ask your banker about the costs of compliance, and your insurance agent, and car dealer. The paperwork and time spent on compliance is a huge burden, and the costs are passed on to us.

As for the extra two minutes for the shoes and belt, if the regulations had been framed as a time cost of 53 million hours per year in aggregate, you can damn well bet there would have been more debate about it and fewer people saying "what's a couple of minutes?" And that leaves off any estimate of delays caused by lines at checkpoints.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:58 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,292,271 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
Who is living in a prison cell ?
Many people have converted their homes.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,497,625 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Everybody you know has been negatively affected by the Patriot Act. Ask your banker about the costs of compliance, and your insurance agent, and car dealer. The paperwork and time spent on compliance is a huge burden, and the costs are passed on to us.

As for the extra two minutes for the shoes and belt, if the regulations had been framed as a time cost of 53 million hours per year in aggregate, you can damn well bet there would have been more debate about it and fewer people saying "what's a couple of minutes?" And that leaves off any estimate of delays caused by lines at checkpoints.
Financial institutions have always had to answer to court orders. There's nothing new there. The orders are now coming from a different source and I haven't heard of this huge uproar from said institutions, not a peep.

A couple of minutes is well worth a freaking bomb going off. Sorry, I still haven't lost a thing. I just haven't. You can throw out big numbers and what ifs but I can still fly and do every single thing I always have.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,990,966 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyegirl View Post
Because you are posting how you are "fairly liberal", yet struggle with understanding the rights "you claim" have not been taken away with the implementation of the Patriot Act. I smell a troll.
The stench is overwhelming at this point.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,990,966 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
If you feel the Patriot Act has ruined your life and made it miserable, there is a country to the north called Canada. I am sure you would love it up there. They have much more freedom than the U.S.
No, your police state mentality is creeping northward. The only difference is, we have lots of territory and a sparse population.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,990,966 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
If the Patriot Act is taking away our freedoms, than why aren't protestors who make signs comparing Bush or Obama to Hitler, arrested on the spot by and labeled as terrorist enemies of the state by the people who run the Patriot Act.
"The people who run the Patriot Act."
Does anything more need to be stated about this guy's mentality?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:08 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,952,928 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
No, your police state mentality is creeping northward. The only difference is, we have lots of territory and a sparse population.
The government is supposed to be transparent in it's dealing, and the citizens protected in their privacy.

These scared, authoritarians on this thread want that reversed.

The government can keep all it's dealings secret in the name of National Security and citizens should lose their privacy rights.

The fall of Rome on steroids. This is how low we've sunk.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,400,833 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
Financial institutions have always had to answer to court orders. There's nothing new there. The orders are now coming from a different source and I haven't heard of this huge uproar from said institutions, not a peep.

A couple of minutes is well worth a freaking bomb going off. Sorry, I still haven't lost a thing. I just haven't. You can throw out big numbers and what ifs but I can still fly and do every single thing I always have.
After reading this thread I think you can tell by now that there is nothing unconstitutional about the USAPATRIOT Act, and all the hyperbole and spin against the law has been by those who never bothered to read the bill.

There has been no violation of our constitutionally protected rights. In absolutely every case, and stated numerous times, the legislation requires the protections under the Fourth Amendment to be adhered to at all times. So when someone claims that the USAPATRIOT Act violates the Fourth Amendment you can be absolutely certain that they: 1) have never read the law; or 2) are lying through their teeth.

The only provision under the USAPATRIOT Act that I have a problem with, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the US Constitution, is the section that allows the Executive Branch to sell off at public auction the assets of terrorist organizations and keep the proceeds from such sales. I believe this provision undermines the Separation of Powers. Congress, specifically the House, is the only body that is permitted to appropriate funds under Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 of the US Constitution. I think giving the Executive Branch another source of income, that is separate from and unaccountable to Congress, is a very bad idea.

This is precisely what happened when Reagan was President. According to the Boland Amendment the President was prohibited from using any appropriated funds to continue funding the Contras in Nicaragua. So Reagan used the proceeds from the sale of arms to Israel, which were later sold to Iran, to continue funding the Contras. It was not appropriated funds, therefore Reagan did not violate the law under the Boland Amendment, but it did give the Executive Branch more authority than they should have been allowed.

The Executive Branch should not have any source of revenue that does not come directly from Congress.
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