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As long as there's cold beer, NASCAR, and Monday Night Football the vast majority of folks will choose to remain blissfully ignorant of the abuses of government.
I'm a fairly liberal guy but I've never understood all the whinnig about the patriot act. I've never heard of anyone having any negative personal experiences as a direct result of the patriot act. Has anybody? If you're doing nothing wrong it appears that you'll be just fine which is true for about 99% of the population. It's been in effect for several years and I hear so many complain about it but nobody that's actually been effected by it. It sort of goes hand and hand with airport body scanners and/or pat downs. THe extra 1-2 minutes it takes me to take my shoes and belt off has never caused me any trauma but I hear so many whine incessantly about it. Well, that's until something goes BOOM..Anyway, just my thoughts, flame away at your leisure.
If you want to cede that power to the Government then they will happily take it and start to abuse it. As we've already seen. Wherever you draw the line they will push for more. Do you honestly believe this Country is becoming more ethical? ....LOL...It's going down hill in a hand basket. They've held Americans in jail for 5 years without charges, wiretapped without a Judge's approval, put American citizens on kill lists without judicial oversight, ignore laws regarding Presidential authorization of force, kept protestors in cages blocks from parade routes so they wouldn't be seen by the establishment. Kept Americans from returning to the USA on overseas flights, tortured prisoners breaking treaties we signed and International law, confiscation of laptops, papers, and books without a warrant at airports.
If you want to cede that power to the Government then they will happily take it and start to abuse it. As we've already seen. Wherever you draw the line they will push for more. Do you honestly believe this Country is becoming more ethical? ....LOL...It's going down hill in a hand basket. They've held Americans in jail for 5 years without charges, wiretapped without a Judge's approval, put American citizens on kill lists without judicial oversight, ignore laws regarding Presidential authorization of force, kept protestors in cages blocks from parade routes so they wouldn't be seen by the establishment. Kept Americans from returning to the USA on overseas flights, tortured prisoners breaking treaties we signed and International law, confiscation of laptops, papers, and books without a warrant at airports.
Look, I'm not sure what power you're talking about. I haven't lost anything, not a thing and nobody has been able to illustrate what they've actually lost. It's just a lot of irrational fear. Liberals rant about the rights irrational fear of healthcare, climate change etc. but we do the same when it comes to the patriot act. How does holding Americans for 5 years ( Im not even sure that's true) have anything to do with the patriot act? What does ANY of the rest of your comment have to do with the patriot act? Again, it's just an irrational fear of an imaginary boogeyman. A boogeyman that hasn't shown up in 8 years. I really don't get it.
You've apparently never heard Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura rant and rave about it. They do it every week.
How about Michael Parenti? Noam Chomsky? Howard Zinn? Chris Hedges? Gore Vidal? Andrew Napolitano?
Who was the innocent victim who had an FBI tracking devise on their car for months? It came out about six months ago in the mass media.
Most people who are victims of invasion of privacy and covert intimidation are scared into silence: they rarely speak out against the big scary government agencies and officials. That's why you do not hear of too many cases.
I don't listen to any of the aforementioned loons. The guy with the tracker on his car was the subject of an FBI Investigation. Trackers have been used for as long as they've been in existence. Sometimes, criminal subjects find them. That guy was a muslim so everybody cried. Again, I've only heard of ONE case and that guy got $2 million for a misread fingerprint. It remains hype without evidence, I'm sorry.
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Originally Posted by Patton360
But the right to vote for whom? Democrat or Republican....two ugly heads on the same beast.
You can vote for WHOEVER YOU WANT. Write in a candidate. Guess what, you can run yourself.
Look, I'm not sure what power you're talking about. I haven't lost anything, not a thing and nobody has been able to illustrate what they've actually lost. It's just a lot of irrational fear. Liberals rant about the rights irrational fear of healthcare, climate change etc. but we do the same when it comes to the patriot act. How does holding Americans for 5 years ( Im not even sure that's true) have anything to do with the patriot act? What does ANY of the rest of your comment have to do with the patriot act? Again, it's just an irrational fear of an imaginary boogeyman. A boogeyman that hasn't shown up in 8 years. I really don't get it.
Granting the power to the Executive to spy on Americans without judicial oversight, and passing a law making companies that do that on behalf of the President immune from lawsuits a is not taking away citizens rights?
Why is it YOU personally that must feel the effects before you act?
Do you not understand that the "good guys" will not always be in charge and then citizens will need to fall back on the Rule of Law and the Constitution for help?
Too late by then...you already trashed the principles.
P.S It's funny you call the fear of "climate change" irrational when I could post a list of the World's leading scientific organizations saying the exact opposite.
And of course, you don't think it's likely true that a US citizen was held for five years without trial....that's the hallmark of a authoritarian....not only do you not really care if it were true....but you are totally unaware of it happening.
Look, I'm not sure what power you're talking about. I haven't lost anything, not a thing and nobody has been able to illustrate what they've actually lost. It's just a lot of irrational fear. Liberals rant about the rights irrational fear of healthcare, climate change etc. but we do the same when it comes to the patriot act. How does holding Americans for 5 years ( Im not even sure that's true) have anything to do with the patriot act? What does ANY of the rest of your comment have to do with the patriot act? Again, it's just an irrational fear of an imaginary boogeyman. A boogeyman that hasn't shown up in 8 years. I really don't get it.
You've lost plenty. You're just too blind and caught up in the daily routine to notice it.
A sacrifice of rights and freedoms brought on as a result of further empowering an already intrusive government is not a good thing. Just because it has yet to effect you directly does not mean it won't. Even if it doesn't surrendering rights and freedoms is always the wrong thing to do.
Governments the world over have a long and well documented history of abusing their powers. Willfully allowing them to consolidate more power on the grounds of it somehow temporarily increasing safety is foolish and shortsighted.
Benjamin Franklin's comment sums it up pretty well; "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Last edited by outbacknv; 05-21-2011 at 07:56 PM..
Granting the power to the Executive to spy on Americans without judicial oversight, and passing a law making companies that do that on behalf of the President immune from lawsuits a is not taking away citizens rights?
Why is it YOU personally that must feel the effects before you act?
Do you not understand that the "good guys" will not always be in charge and then citizens will need to fall back on the Rule of Law and the Constitution for help?
Too late by then...you already trashed the principles.
P.S It's funny you call the fear of "climate change" irrational when I could post a list of the World's leading scientific organizations saying the exact opposite.
And of course, you don't think it's likely true that a US citizen was held for five years without trial....that's the hallmark of a authoritarian....not only do you not really care if it were true....but you are totally unaware of it happening.
You don't live in reality.
I have not lost ANY rights. I can do the same excact things I could prior to the patriot act. Maybe you were affored rights I wasn't, not sure.
I didn't ask about me, I asked for ANY examples and only got one, just ONE and that was due to a misread fingerprint and the guy got $2 million.
The "bad guys" were in charge when the patriot act was implemented and I didn't lose anything there either.
What principles are being thrashed? Again, I haven't lost a thing and nobody else can articulate what they've lost.
Conservatives fear of the reality of climate change is irrational and ridiculous. I understand the science.
If you're story about an American being held without trial is true, ok, provide some evidence for it so the case can be examined BUT that still has nothing to do with the patriot act.
I reside in reality, a reality that's not based on who's "in charge" but on evidence. There is no evidence for the irrational fear of the patriot act. There just isn't.
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