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Old 04-22-2015, 09:29 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,194,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
No they had an Army issue .50 cal Machine Gun. Like the one mounted on tanks and amoured vehicles. The M-82 wasn't around then. If you want to excuse the murder of Law Enforcement Officers by Domestic Terrorists don't expect me to cheer you on



the M82 was 1st made for civilian use in 1984. so yes it was available for use by the Davidians.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:14 PM
Status: "Apparently the worst poster on CD" (set 26 days ago)
 
27,645 posts, read 16,125,463 times
Reputation: 19062
The scene of the crime was bulldozed immediately following the attrocity because of the threat of standing water breeding mosquitos.. A south Texas television station reported after the blaze that 2 suspects were in custody for starting the blaze... It was a load of **** from start to finish
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Aztlan
2,686 posts, read 1,770,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
The scene of the crime was bulldozed immediately following the attrocity because of the threat of standing water breeding mosquitos.. A south Texas television station reported after the blaze that 2 suspects were in custody for starting the blaze... It was a load of **** from start to finish
The two suspects should have been named Bill and Janet. Just imagine, we could have held the impeachment hearings 5 years earlier.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:38 PM
 
671 posts, read 890,368 times
Reputation: 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Why don't you give us a post of yours taking Bush to task for his illegal expansion of government powers, and assaults on civil liberties?

That way we would know you are not some typical right winger who only takes up the cause of the Constitution when the GOP is out of power?

You'd really have allot of credibility then.

Your saying you'd give him credibility only if he was a liberal and the president was a republican... Your pretty stuck in your ideology buddy boy.....Talk about being blind in one eye and can't see out the other..
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
The scene of the crime was bulldozed immediately following the attrocity because of the threat of standing water breeding mosquitos..
That's funny (or maybe sad as it's an obvious cover up). I guess the government ran out of mosquito spray.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,357,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Clinton was inaugurated on Jan 21, 1993
The Waco siege began on February 28, 1993
The Waco case issues were down low in the FBI up until that day

Cluster-f-uck happens
More importantly, it was the times. Waco occurred soon after the Jim Jones massacre, which horrified the nation like no other single incident before.

Koresh showed every sign that he was becoming another Jim Jones, and wanted to have every one of his followers meet death by his command. Remember that negotiations had gone on with the federal agencies long before the stand off, as soon as the feds learned Koresh was stocking up on weapons and was fortifying his ramshackle compound. Also remember that janet Reno was also new to her job.

The biggest mistake of all was allowing Koresh all the news time he craved for over a month. He was an attention hog for his very first taste of power inside that little cult, and just like so many other cult leaders, the way he kept all attention on him was to kick up the fear factor as high as it could go. His problem was he was too good at it, and the pressure on Reno from the public to do something, just get in there and put a stop to it, was overwhelming, especially as Reno was already a very get-tough prosecutor for her long career.

if Koresh had lost his marbles 9 months earlier, he would have been dealt with by G.H.W.'s Attorney General, who had already de-fused an equally dangerous potential stand-off in 1989 when the Church Universal & Triumphant, a cult that had moved into a remote corner of Montana, very close to Yellowstone Park, began conducting a similar weapon stocking.

The cult had a much larger property, and were also building huge bomb shelters, concrete watch towers, and tall razor wire boundary fences. Atty. General Barr quietly arrested the husband of Claire Prophet, the cult's leader, when he was caught red-handed with a bunch of illegal machine guns, including some .50 calibers. Some of the cult's strong arm boys were also busted at the same time, and without her bully boys, Prophet caved in and quit the arming the citadel she was creating, and allowed federal inspections afterward.

That only came from an experienced top administrator. Barr was not about to allow another Jim Jones and the People's Temple on his watch. That one resulted in over 900 deaths, including a U.S. Congressman.

Reno had none of that experience, and lacked patience. Another person who had a different temperament may have decided to simply wait it out and let Koresh threaten his flock until they began to self-destruct, and then attempt to save whoever they could.

Either way, the Davidians were doomed. Their only real hope for survival depended on Koresh's gunshot wound would finally either kill him or incapacitate his ability to speak and give orders.

It's important to remember that the negotiators were partly successful. They were able to get 19 of the children out unharmed, along with a few adults. The Branch Davidians hit the public radar in the first place when the Waco newspaper reported a series of articles that charged Koresh and some of his enforcers with child abuse including sexual abuse. The very same charges were what brought attention to Jim Jones.

It's also important to remember that the incident went on for 51 days. A few lessons had already been learned from the Ruby Ridge incident.

But not enough. The chain of authority was vague and weak, and orders by one leader were overridden or ignored by another leader. 2 Federal agencies and the Texas National Guard were all involved, all at odds with each other as to who ruled the roost. None of them had ever dealt with a situation that had progressed as far that involved so many people.

22 years later, we have all forgotten most of the important details that led to the final tragedy. But what came out of Waco has stuck with our law enforcement agencies. There have been several other similar cult standoffs since, and none has ended with any death other than the suicide of the cult's leadership. Most have avoided anyone dying at all.

Waco wasn't the first or last, and it's still very possible we will see another Waco happen, sometime, somewhere, but our professional law enforcement officers are better prepared now much more than they were in 1993. There is more professional discipline as well. That's part of the reasons why the Bunkerville, Nevada standoff didn't ignite last year.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Aztlan
2,686 posts, read 1,770,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
More importantly, it was the times. Waco occurred soon after the Jim Jones massacre, which horrified the nation like no other single incident before.
15 years separated the Waco murders and the deaths in Guyana. That is like saying that the Boston Marathon bombing occurred soon after the attack on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:10 PM
 
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
7,646 posts, read 9,949,132 times
Reputation: 16466
I met several of the survivors of the atf massacre. They were meek, mild mannered older people and children. Not anything like the atf made out.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:37 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,236,576 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
The scene of the crime was bulldozed immediately following the attrocity because of the threat of standing water breeding mosquitos.. A south Texas television station reported after the blaze that 2 suspects were in custody for starting the blaze... It was a load of **** from start to finish

I saw it on live tv. The tank did not start that fire.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:39 AM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,450,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
I saw it on live tv. The tank did not start that fire.
Yes it did.
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