Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This hits at the center of the entire argument. It really comes down to believing that we are all independent actors in society, or we live in a social collective.
Me, I recognize that we live in a social collective. It's our nature. It's to the benefit of society overall that we take care of our weakest members. It's like insurance against social unrest, and the just thing to do.
The ironic thing about the independentists is that, when push comes to shove, they run for the benefits of society. Seniors are well known to learn Republican (to a heavy degree), but just try to pry that Medicare from their hands.
I agree with you and I too recognize that the reason we form ourselves into communities is because the benefit of so doing greatly outweighs the cost.
I think that the suposition that we senior usually lean Republican is currently undergoing a sea change for two reasons.
1. Those who are now "becoming seniors" came of age in the 60s and many still hold dear a great deal of the values that they formed during that time. Heck, you are more likely to hear Bob Dylan played at senior gatherings now than you are to hear Frank Sinatra or Perry Como.
2. The Republicans current fight to destroy medicare is turning even the older seniors....who otherwise might still vote Republican.....against them in rapidly growing numbers.
This hits at the center of the entire argument. It really comes down to believing that we are all independent actors in society, or we live in a social collective.
Me, I recognize that we live in a social collective. It's our nature. It's to the benefit of society overall that we take care of our weakest members. It's like insurance against social unrest, and the just thing to do.
The ironic thing about the independentists is that, when push comes to shove, they run for the benefits of society. Seniors are well known to learn Republican (to a heavy degree), but just try to pry that Medicare from their hands.
"Seniors" paid into a MANDATORY system for decades, and STILL pay into the system after they turn 65. What the present snotnosed generation wants is for the "seniors" to die off so they can inherit what was paid by the boomers. Ain't happening.........
"Seniors" lean heavily toward fiscally conservative politics, not the radical "tax and spend" liberals. That leaves only the Republican Party or the Libertarians,....darned sure not the demoncrats. The Democrats abandoned their conservative principles decades ago,...when the looney lefties became dominant in the party.
I was an adult with family prior to Medicare, so you have nothing on me from an experience standpoint. I remember people who could have paid for private insurance opting for Medicare because someone else was paying the tab. If memory serves me, Medicare had more than tripled the projected cost in just over a decade. That's the government I remember,....the one that drove up healthcare costs by implementing price controls which were quickly adopted by the insurance companies.
Yep,....good 'ol government really fixed the healthcare system. Now it's bankrupt, and the same screwballs who ruined the system are redesigning it again.
Can you really NOT understand that the reason medicare is increasing in cost is the same reason that ALL medical expenses....private patient, private insurance, employer insurance....ALL medical expenses are increasing in cost. There are many more procedures and many more drugs available today than there were 50 years ago. Actually, the cost of medicare is less than the cost of private insurance today because the administrative cost for medicare is 4% while the administrative cost for private insurance is more than 20%. You have to pay for all those lobbyist you know. The cost for medicare would be even less if the pharmacy lobbyist had not paid off the representatives to put a road block in the way of medicare bargaining for lower drug cost as do all other civilized countries.
Can you really NOT understand that the reason medicare is increasing in cost is the same reason that ALL medical expenses....private patient, private insurance, employer insurance....ALL medical expenses are increasing in cost. There are many more procedures and many more drugs available today than there were 50 years ago. Actually, the cost of medicare is less than the cost of private insurance today because the administrative cost for medicare is 4% while the administrative cost for private insurance is more than 20%. You have to pay for all those lobbyist you know. The cost for medicare would be even less if the pharmacy lobbyist had not paid off the representatives to put a road block in the way of medicare bargaining for lower drug cost as do all other civilized countries.
Have you ever considered that the percentage of administrative costs for Medicare just MIGHT be lower because of the larger payments that Medicare makes for its OLDER members? If the payout is greater for Medicare than its private counterpart, then (as a percentage) the administrative costs would be lower.
The low cost of Medicare is due to GOVERNMENT CONTROL. That is the reason the system is bankrupt,....the government doesn't know DIDDLY about private enterprise. It does know how to screw up a decent system.
Insurance is a business, just like selling automobiles or any other product. If you don't want to sign the contract, then don't buy the product. Nobody is holding a gun on you.
I do know that with Medicare private companies drop you when you turn 65. Whose fault is that,...the government or the insurance company?
You obviously hate free enterprise.
Here is where you are delusional. Before medicare THEY ALREADY DROPPED EVERYONE WHO WAS ELDERLY! What part of that can't you get through your head?
That's the whole reason medicare was created. BTW Medicare was widely supported by the insurance companies because they wanted the government to care for the elderly because that meant the pressure would be off of them to offer insurance for that money losing segment of the population.
You're letting your ideology get in the way of facts and reality and, while that is normal for right wing nut jobs, it doesn't make those facts any less real even if you don't like them.
I propose another way of reducing medical costs. Simply pay medical education from the 3 rd year of college on. This would apply to all medical education not just Doctors. Without huge debts the practitioners could afford to live commensurate with the efforts they put into their education and their professions. Another savings would be realized by having the medical schools openly bid for the government payments. The currently excessive tuitions would soon approach costs.
The major opposition to any form of socialized medicine is it would take money from the speculative private sector and use it to provide care for the part of the population that has been excluded from owning any significant wealth. The Corporatists have successfully destroyed the pensions of the working and small business classes and now they are working on taking their lives. The lower income people, except as the creators of wealth, are just another cost to be eliminated. Eliminating costs may be a good short term way to run a private business but it is a heartless and inhumane way to run an economy or a society.
"Seniors" lean heavily toward fiscally conservative politics, not the radical "tax and spend" liberals. That leaves only the Republican Party or the Libertarians,....darned sure not the demoncrats. The Democrats abandoned their conservative principles decades ago,...when the looney lefties became dominant in the party.
Where do you get the notion that that seniors lean heavily toward fiscally conservative politics? Studies found that in general, Americans' opinions veer toward the liberal as they grow older.
If what you trying to say is that seniors are in favor of the Ryan Plan, you couldn't be more off base.
From what I see, seniors are nearly unanimous defenders of the current Medicare system and don't want their children and grandchildren short-changed by the Republican proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11
Have you ever considered that the percentage of administrative costs for Medicare just MIGHT be lower because of the larger payments that Medicare makes for its OLDER members? If the payout is greater for Medicare than its private counterpart, then (as a percentage) the administrative costs would be lower.
The low cost of Medicare is due to GOVERNMENT CONTROL. That is the reason the system is bankrupt,....the government doesn't know DIDDLY about private enterprise. It does know how to screw up a decent system.
It's dishonest to declare that Medicare is bankrupt (when it isn't) and ignore rising health care costs overall. By that same argument, private insurers will be bankrupt in ten years also.
Government control has kept the annual rise in Medicare costs to 8.8% since 1970 while private insurance has risen by 9.9% in the same period. If that's the results, viva government control.
Government systems limit executive compensation. That is anathema to the executives that have become a business class unto themselves. The executives extract wealth from their workers and their stockholders by colluding with each other on shared BOARDS OF DIRECTORS.
On this forum is a topic about the minimum wage, which most conservatives are against raising.
Tell me, how is the average worker supposed to save up hundreds of thousands of dollars for end-of-life care when wages are either stagnant or falling for most people (except the top?)
Obviously, we need to control health care costs, which the free market is not succeeding to do. In other industrialized countries, HC costs are 1/2 of the costs here.
It would seem to me that if the hard-right is serious about keeping costs down instead of stuck in a fixed ideology, they'd be the first to advocate for that plan. But no, they're slaves to the ideology and everything else is not important.
The "average worker" is entitled to "average healthcare", not million dollar cancer treatments. You get what YOU pay for.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
