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Old 06-05-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,892,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Yes the Gov put it into action! Bill Clinton deregulated the Glass/Steagall act read up on it Because it was the start of the housing market/Bank trouble.....
So you admit that over-regulation wasn't the problem but lack of regulation. Let's remind ourselves that the Republican Congress had to pass deregulated the Glass/Steagall Act.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,892,052 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
I think its funny that you sat here and blamed the GOP for perpetuating the problems, especially considering the whole crash took place under a Democratic Congress.
What policies did the the Democratic Congress, that took office in January 2007, institute which made the economy take a nosedive in 2007? The answer is none. This line of argument is what's caused deflection of blame. Bush was in office for six years but the reason the economy crashed was because of the newly elected Democrats.

Don't anyone let you believe that conservatives stand for accepting responsibility and this is a prime example.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:39 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,398,183 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
So you admit that over-regulation wasn't the problem but lack of regulation. Let's remind ourselves that the Republican Congress had to pass deregulated the Glass/Steagall Act.
It was not over regulation if you would read up on the act. It was put into place after a 2 year research
The first Glass-Steagall Act of 1932 was enacted in an effort to stop deflation, and expanded the Federal Reserve's ability to offer rediscounts on more types of assets, such as government bonds as well as commercial paper.[14] The second Glass–Steagall Act (the Banking Act of 1933) was a reaction to the collapse of a large portion of the American commercial banking system in early 1933. Literature in economics usually refers to this latter act simply as the Glass–Steagall Act, since it had a stronger impact on US banking regulation.
Glass

What Does Glass-Steagall Act Mean?
An act passed by Congress in 1933 that prohibited commercial banks from collaborating with full-service brokerage firms or participating in investment banking activities.
Investopedia explains Glass-Steagall Act
The Glass-Steagall Act was enacted during the Great Depression. It protected bank depositors from the additional risks associated with security transactions. The act was dismantled in 1999. Consequently, the distinction between commercial banks and brokerage firms has blurred; many banks own brokerage firms and provide investment services.

Glass-Steagall Act Definition


Glass-Steagall Act (1933)
Adapted from an article in the Law Library.

The Glass-Steagall Act, also known as the Banking Act of 1933 (48 Stat. 162), was passed by Congress in 1933 and prohibits commercial banks from engaging in the investment business.

It was enacted as an emergency response to the failure of nearly 5,000 banks during the Great Depression. The act was originally part of President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal program and became a permanent measure in 1945. It gave tighter regulation of national banks to the Federal Reserve System; prohibited bank sales of securities; and created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), which insures bank deposits with a pool of money appropriated from banks.

Beginning in the 1900s, commercial banks established security affiliates that floated bond issues and underwrote corporate stock issues. (In underwriting, a bank guarantees to furnish a definite sum of money by a definite date to a business or government entity in return for an issue of bonds or stock.) The expansion of commercial banks into securities underwriting was substantial until the 1929 stock market crash and the subsequent Depression. In 1930, the Bank of the United States failed, reportedly because of activities of its security affiliates that created artificial conditions in the market. In 1933, all of the banks throughout the country were closed for a four-day period, and 4,000 banks closed permanently.
Glass-Steagall Act (1933) News - The New York Times
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,892,052 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
It was not over regulation if you would read up on the act. It was put into place after a 2 year research
The first Glass-Steagall Act of 1932 was enacted in an effort to stop deflation, and expanded the Federal Reserve's ability to offer rediscounts on more types of assets, such as government bonds as well as commercial paper.[14] The second Glass–Steagall Act (the Banking Act of 1933) was a reaction to the collapse of a large portion of the American commercial banking system in early 1933. Literature in economics usually refers to this latter act simply as the Glass–Steagall Act, since it had a stronger impact on US banking regulation.
Glass
The point i was making was that conservatives do not want any constraints on business and believe the free market will solve all problems. You just gave an example of a melt-down once government removed a law that's was passed during FDR's time, proving that we really do need government intervention and one can't allow business a free hand.

In other words, you can't blame government for the problem is the problem's cause was removing government rules. It's like blaming the police when the serial killer says to the police, "it's your fault, you didn't stop me before I killed again."
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,223,783 times
Reputation: 6242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
If the government doesn't make jobs, how is it that you are blaming President Obama for not creating jobs?

The bottom line from what I'm reading here is that government only has two tools to effect the economy, fiscal and monetary policy, and the rightwingers here don't want the government to use either tool.
Let me explain further. Government doesn't make real jobs (because it produces nothing, it only confiscates money from productive workers, and therefore there can never be a positive gain), but it CAN and DOES prevent jobs from being created by excessive and arbitrary over-regulation and insane over-taxation.

If government hadn't continued to grow to over 1/3 of the size of the entire economy (entirely by confiscation of people's earnings), our economy would be 1/3 larger in a HEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS WAY. A body that is 180 pounds of healthy muscle is good. A body is 180 pounds but 60 of that is malignant cancer, that body is not only doomed, but it is in incredible pain. This is the state of America's economy today: strangled by the size and greed of a parasitic government, basically comatose with pain and hopelessness. Nothing will change until we cut out the cancer.

And government claims we are actually healthy because GNP rises, when cancerous government growth is COUNTED as part of GNP. Only by playing to the ignorance of the sheeple, and sending out meaningless statistics that government claims show "recovery," can government continue the massive decline without penalty.

I have watched the economy deteriorate my entire life, and that's over 30 years in the working world. When I was young there was no question we were the healthiest economy in the world, with no competitors. Business cycles would always follow bad times with good. But Government grew and grew, and made nation-destroying decisions in collusion with super-greedy Big Business. They sold our nation, and our future, for riches for themselves.

How any American can look at the last 30 years, and not see that our own government destroyed us much more effectively than even Russia hoped in its wildest dreams, I'll never understand. And liberals today think government is able, and willing, to "manage" America today. They SOLD OUR FUTURE to China and India and Germany. THEY SOLD THE PROSPERITY OF OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

And liberals want government to be part of solving the problems it purposely caused? Seriously?

There was no such thing as a "jobless" recovery until I was about 30--since obviously, there is no such thing. Now EVERY recovery is "jobless" (meaning it is decades since we have had ANY recovery, which should be obvious). Unemployment and underemployment is structural and permanent. Every generation will do MUCH worse than their parents. In my time, we could go to college and be very successful, or not go and always be able to do something to live a successful life. No more. No more secretaries, no more support workers, no more "I can always work at the hardware store." And for the first time since the 1983 job collapse into which I graduated, hardworking and personable college graduates can kiss that investment goodbye, and wonder if they should borrow another $50,000 to chase a different job that will be outsourced before they graduate.

We no longer have a functioning economy, or nation. We are in permanent "freeze," waiting for government to stop choking any possible recovery with taxes, rules, regulation and corrupt micro-management. And liberals want to know why conservatives don't want "active" government. For heavens sake, look at the destruction of "active" government--could it be more apparent that there can be no productivity with the weight of huge parasite needing to be fed first, last and always, leaving nothing for REAL economic activity?

Government does not make real jobs that are the productive engine of the economy, although it can make the "shadow" jobs of non-productive (and counter-productive) government workers by confiscating dollars that would have stimulated "real" jobs allowing the consumer to buy things he wanted. A "real" job is created when I, a homeowner, hire carpenters and electricians and plumbers to renovate a falling-down house so I can rent it. Those tradesmen provide a real service and I willingly and happily give them money for creating value.

Liberals seem to want a world where the working class works incredibly hard, sends all the earnings to government, and then government spends it on...wars, pork, corruption, stimulus, corporate welfare, foreign aid, whatever--they spend infinite amounts and it never makes America one whit more economically stable or healthy. This is basically what we have now. Is this GOOD? HEALTHY? Worth going to work for?

I want a world where I work hard to earn money, so I can buy things (creating jobs) and hire people to do things (creating jobs). I will work harder to make my life better. Already the taxes are far too high and I work only to fatten government, and consequently my spouse and I will be 100% out of the workforce within 2 years, and all that money we would have earned will NOT create ANY more jobs. I'm talking about a million or more dollars that we would have spent on hiring workers and buying things. Multiply that by most of the rest of the professional population "Going Galt" very, very early. When the doctor shortages hit, and 90% of the electrical plants shut down, you will realize the ramifications.

Let's look at what government does. Over the course of the year, my family loses huge amounts of our income Washington, which uses it to wage multiple endless wars and "grease the wheels" of corruption and graft, NONE of which helps the nation or the economy, and none of which will ever help my family (Too bad they spent the Social Security Trust Fund, so the hundreds of thousands we paid for that government scam is now worthless, like all the rest). There are hundreds of millions of give-aways of my dollars, and I know after 30 adult years that NEVER will a penny of that be spent to benefit me, or anyone I know, or any non-corrupt person at all. Federal government could disappear tomorrow and absolutely NO decent, non-corrupt working American would notice--other than they no longer have to pay 15.3% of every dollar for the failed Ponzi Scam, and the huge amounts of federal income tax they pay as a penalty for working too hard, and investing in education.

Same for the State government, layering on the micro-management and requirements of me to serve IT--and of course I must pay for those government workers who add no value but make me dance through their hoops to get their permission to drive, own a car, fish in a stream, or hunt a turkey during the specified dates at the specified times of day with the specified guns and only taking the specified sex of turkey, etc. The Kings of old had no idea how they could micro-manage and get income from simply "claiming" all the wildlife as belonging to the King--and now government.

For all those who are trying to rent out their homes (now that they're underwater), or renting family homes so they don't have to sell the family legacy at the worst time in history but can't afford the insane property taxes, the State will confiscate 8.5% of any rent income, even though your property taxes alone will exceed your rent income (then start adding costs and losses). I can't tell you how much of a scam this is for government, other than that these homeowners (I'm in the second category above) will lose a fortune to the situation, but will lose even MORE in cash flow to the government every year despite constantly losing money.

And then the local government, which loads on corrupt building inspectors to add $1,000 of absolutely ridiculous and wasteful spending for every $3,000 spent on building. All this on top of the property taxes, which have NOTHING TO DO with the services received, but instead are your share of keeping the Town "King" and his entire entourage and his estates in riches and total financial security.

I'm not blaming Obama for not creating jobs, I'm blaming him for making the government parasite so incredibly large and voracious that the economy is basically non-functional.

All government has to do is NOT strangle the productive economy. Unfortunately, government is a malignant cancer that simply CANNOT stop growing and killing the host economy. That's what it DOES. That's what it IS.

As for the "tools" by which government effects the economy (fiscal and monetary policy), let's look at what our glorious leaders have already DONE: the Stealth Tax known as dollar devaluation as a way to deal with a debt so large we simply can't pay it back.

So every American pays government at all levels every year, to support the monstrously huge multiple government organizations, so they can micro-manage us and "oversee" us. There are so many levels of taxation and taxes at every step, every counting, every time period, and every possible way of looking at money, that of every dollar, probably 90% ends up confiscated by government. Yet some Americans manage to save, to put in 401Ks, to invest, and earn wages that the government confiscates. The Stealth Tax now reduces the buying power of every dollar earned, saved, or invested, or to come in the future. This is an inevitable result of flooding the banking system with printed dollars with no backing, known as "quantitative easing." In other words, the government is now BURNING what little the American people managed to save after the housing collapse, the stock market collapse, massive unemployment and underemployment.

So yes, I firmly believe that the government should NOT use the "tools at its disposal" to manipulate the economy, for one critical reason:

It uses these tools to make government even bigger and more powerful, and at the same time steals even more from the American people--even now that they have almost nothing left after the destruction of the entire nation by those entrusted to run her. Government does NOTHING for the people, for the nation, or for any benign cause. It does one thing: it grows, it feeds corruption and graft, it steals and confiscates, and it destroys ANYTHING good or productive or healthy in America.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:51 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 18,987,544 times
Reputation: 10270
Wow.

That's fewer than 1,000 jobs per state, at obama's count of 57 states.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,647,776 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Private sector up 83,000. Seems to be slowing, even the Repubs are starting to realize we must invest in jobs in areas that do not exist right now. May be time to have a WPA type program to rebuild Infrastructure until innovation can create the future jobs. The Country is in trouble and need the Repubs to engage in trying to resolve some problems, rather than perpetuating them.

Or, maybe we should get government out of the way. The economy will repair itself if left alone.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,647,776 times
Reputation: 9324
Remember this projection?

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Old 06-05-2011, 03:02 PM
 
29,970 posts, read 18,525,884 times
Reputation: 20736
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Private sector up 83,000. Seems to be slowing, even the Repubs are starting to realize we must invest in jobs in areas that do not exist right now. May be time to have a WPA type program to rebuild Infrastructure until innovation can create the future jobs. The Country is in trouble and need the Repubs to engage in trying to resolve some problems, rather than perpetuating them.

That effort for republicans to "engage in trying to solve some problems" first starts with getting Obama out of office and the dems from controlling the senate.

We have seen (now for the 4th time in history) that massive fiscal "stimulus" does nothing to stimulate the economy. For the rest of us, the lessons of the three previous occasions was sufficient. Hopefully the libs will not need a fifth failure to demonstrate the fallacy of thier economic beliefs.

What do we need to do? Essnetially dismantle liberal policy of the last 50 years. What will that involve?

1. Changing corporate tax structure to a "consumption" style tax in order for US corporations to be competitive and restore the US manufacturing sector.

2. Repeal Obamacare- small buisness cannot afford it.

3. Drastically reduced the regulatory power of the EPA- they are essentially an unchecked radical wing of the democratic party with the authority to enforce "regulations" on buisness without the consent of congress.

4. Allow exploration and expansion of US energy resources including oil, coal, and nuclear. This will allow time for a transition to more "clean" energy.

5. Allow buidling of more refineries

6. Make class action law suits illegal

7. Limit the power of unions

8. Pass a balanced budget act as a constitutional amendment

9. Raise the social security and medicare eligibility age to 72.

10. Eliminate social security disability prior to age 72.

11. Enforce our immigration laws


In short, just reverse most every liberal policy and prosperity will return.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:02 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 18,987,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Or, maybe we should get government out of the way. The economy will repair itself if left alone.
That's way too easy.
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