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Okay here is a very simple solution: if you don't want the possibility of getting yourself or some one else (if you're a male) pregnant don't have sex. If you do get pregnant you need to face the consequences; that could mean paying for an abortion, raising the child alone, or striving to make a go of the relationship.
What some of you don't seem to realize is that this should be all about the child. Once there is a child, in or outside of the womb, its not about the parents its about what is best for the child.
Okay here is a very simple solution: if you don't want the possibility of getting yourself or some one else (if you're a male) pregnant don't have sex. If you do get pregnant you need to face the consequences; that could mean paying for an abortion, raising the child alone, or striving to make a go of the relationship.
What some of you don't seem to realize is that this should be all about the child. Once there is a child, in or outside of the womb, its not about the parents its about what is best for the child.
Doesn't that sort of, do away with a woman's "right" to get an abortion?
Abortion is legal, is it not? And even if it isn't available to all women, most of us are agreeing that it SHOULD be legal and available. Yet, if a man opts out of parenthood, he's charged a massive fine, payable in a mandatory 18-year installment plan.
Naturally, it's wrong for anyone to force a woman to get an abortion. But the system doesn't advocate that; it advocates the contradiction pointed out in the OP. That's why everyone keeps bringing it up, because that's the subject.
No, but as has been said over and over, the woman doesn't have to go through any phase of pregnancy if she chooses not to.
What's your solution to take care of the baby? Just let the baby die in the cold? A woman might choose to have a baby but what if she didn't choose to be a single parent? Basically you're advocating forcing the man's decision on her by forcing her into single parenthood because he's too selfish to even send a check her way to support the child.
What's your solution to take care of the baby? Just let the baby die in the cold? A woman might choose to have a baby but what if she didn't choose to be a single parent? Basically you're advocating forcing the man's decision on her by forcing her into single parenthood because he's too selfish to even send a check her way to support the child.
You know, it's ironic, these men who want to shirk their responsibilities and then have women end up on welfare to support the kids that they helped create. Are they pro-welfare? Probably not, so the irony is particularly glaring.
Is it a FACT that late-term abortions are illegal across the board?
Not sure if you're MISSING my point, or you're just uninterested. I'm only saying that people who consider a fetus merely part of the woman's body cannot accuse a man who disappears before the baby's born of abandoning a child, only of abandoning a woman. That's it. I'm questioning their reasoning, because these are the sort of opinions that influence our legal system to begin with.
Good afternoon,
In my previous post I wasn't seeing the importance of your argument since I'm not sure if most people want late term abortions, maybe only a small subset. I believe even pro-choicers draw a line and see it a fetus as a person after a certain point. That is the problem with debating your point above, you may be making an argument only geared for 10% of the audience. I understand what you're trying to do. You want to display hypocrisy, but it's not necessary. If one is pro-choice for women yet against male legal opt out, they are hypocrites by default.
If I'm still missing your point, I apologize.
Either way, I wish people would state if they are pro-life or pro-choice (and to what extent of pro-choice) within their posts opposing equal opt-out for men. I can understand why a pro-lifer is against male opt-out, since they are also against abortion (female opt-out). My only gripes are with pro-choicers, since they are intellectually dishonest on this topic.
Okay here is a very simple solution: if you don't want the possibility of getting yourself or some one else (if you're a male) pregnant don't have sex. If you do get pregnant you need to face the consequences; that could mean paying for an abortion, raising the child alone, or striving to make a go of the relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Doesn't that sort of, do away with a woman's "right" to get an abortion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson
Well I don't believe that its a woman's right to get an abortion so........
This back and forth is example of why people should put a pro-life or pro-choice disclaimer in their posts. I have no gripes with "Personwhoisaperson" because her/his position holds both genders equally accountable post-conception.
she wasn't forced into parenting alone; she could get an abortion.
Yes, it does, quite literally.
A woman's family and community can't prevent her from having an abortion.
You have take one of two positions:
a. Women alone have the right to decide whether to have an abortion, or not
or
b. Men and women are equally responsible for the child.
You can't have both, and still maintain a rational argument.
I already said that I believe both men and women are responsible for the child. I never said they weren’t. I believe they are both responsible before they have sex. If either of them is not into having a baby, they need to either not have sex or have safe sex. I’ve posted that multiple times throughout this thread.
A family can prevent a woman from having an abortion by holding financial and emotional support over her head. Parents can kick their child out for example. A community can disfellowship a member whose whole life was centered around that community. There are ways to essentially blackmail someone into doing something that doesn’t have any sort of legal record.
Another argument you might hear from those who defend abortion (of the embryo, or fetus, or even partial-birth abortions) is that it isn't a person until the umbilical cord is cut. It's just part of the woman's body, a "parasitic growth" I've been told. Neverminding any arguments to counter that, this also must mean that when a man abandons a pregnant woman even as she is giving birth, he is not abandoning a woman and child... just a woman.
Having said that, I would like to discuss (with anyone truly willing) the idea of a man owing child support to a woman he leaves DURING or CLOSE TO the moment a woman gives birth. I do think it's true that when a woman gets this far along on the understanding that the man will be there for her and the baby, and then the man reneges, he should have to pay a temporary form of child support. As the fetus develops, it's at least more and more questionable whether abortion is morally just. And certainly, many women who are generally "pro-choice" would agree that partial-birth abortions are questionable (outside of those deemed medically necessary).
But for how long?
Asked my girlfriend about this and she said "Yeah, a couple months" I was kinda shocked! I was thinking more like a year. What do you all think? Please keep in mind that I'm asking this for the purpose of ensuring a woman and her baby can get by with the sudden change, not to punish the man.
Thank you for mentioning this. A lot of men disappear once they find out about the baby. The man has a choice to be absent. He has a lot of choices. Many men do duck out on their girlfriends or wives if she has a baby he didn’t want.
Whoever told you you were a human being was lying to you.
You are really just a software program called Misogynysoft.
LOL I died...laughing
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