Why do the males get no say? (market, business, healthcare)
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Yes, those certainly are interesting opinions. And I personally do not agree with them. They do have the sort of all-or-nothing extremist hormone-fueled tone with which many teens view certain issues.
But I will say that opinions are opinions and there cannot be anything inherently illogical about simply holding an opinion, no matter how unique or fringe it may be. It's when a person is asked to justify an opinion that logic, or lack thereof, comes into play. If you can show that an opinion is based on faulty logic, then you can pretty much invalidate that opinion. I don't know- maybe that's what happened in the pages I did not read.
Either way, thanks for humoring me.
Good morning,
I suggest you read the entire thread, including the viewpoints of others (including 2 or 3 women) who agree with the OP before you settle on your opinion. Many great points have been raised past page 12.
The OP's age or personal life is not relevant here, because the posters can only attack him and downplay the topic instead of debating the points raised head on. Every good point raised has been typically ignored or given the "life isn't fair" or "it's never going to happen" as a response. That's not an effective rebuttal when debating an issue.
Also, the fact that posters continue to monitor and post in this thread, even though the don't like the OP or the issue says it must have struck a nerve and we're closer to the mark than they'd like to admit.
Freedom123.....this all sounds very good and workable to me on the surface.....but there must be some serious flaws with your idea that I am missing at first glance.
If this is a valid solution.....why hasn't some politician tried to implement it?
What are the downsides to your plan?
Good morning,
I have created a thread for this topic, so I don't derail this one.
In regards to why some politician hasn't implemented it, it's impossible for me to know. It has been done in India and Australia, and was done somewhat through welfare reform in 1996 under Clinton and the Republicans, but that seems to have only been for cash welfare, and not the unemployment / public housing areas. I'm sure some Republicans will call it socialist and be against it since they don't like government being in the jobs business, and some Democrats will call it slavery / forced labor since everyone who's not disabled or elderly would have to work to get anything from the government.
In regards to downsides, read the thread and you'll see other posters' rebuttals and my answers.
I suggest you read the entire thread, including the viewpoints of others (including 2 or 3 women) who agree with the OP before you settle on your opinion. Many great points have been raised past page 12.
The OP's age or personal life is not relevant here, because the posters can only attack him and downplay the topic instead of debating the points raised head on. Every good point raised has been typically ignored or given the "life isn't fair" or "it's never going to happen" as a response. That's not an effective rebuttal when debating an issue.
Also, the fact that posters continue to monitor and post in this thread, even though the don't like the OP or the issue says it must have struck a nerve and we're closer to the mark than they'd like to admit.
Good Morning, and thank you for the recap. I agree that the OP raised a very interesting question. I do have my own opinion on it, however that particular opinion is overshadowed by my more strongly held opinion that jumping in at the end of a 70 page thread, a thread which shows evidence of emotion trumping logic, would be an exercise in frustration.
And that, is one of the very few kinds of exercise of which, frankly, I'm not in need!
If a man wants to sign a document that says he NEVER wants kids and can NEVER change his mind......why not require that man to also show proof that he has undergone a vasectomey before he is allowed to sign such a document?
Because vasectomies can fail. The hypothetical document can't fail. The hypothetical document is a foolproof way to make sure a man never ends up paying for a kid.
Good Morning, and thank you for the recap. I agree that the OP raised a very interesting question. I do have my own opinion on it, however that particular opinion is overshadowed by my more strongly held opinion that jumping in at the end of a 70 page thread, a thread which shows evidence of emotion trumping logic, would be an exercise in frustration.
And that, is one of the very few kinds of exercise of which, frankly, I'm not in need!
Just curious...which side are you saying uses emotion over logic?
You thought the whole process would take too long if the guy had to sign the document after the girl found out she's pregnant/after the girl made a decision on whether or not to get an abortion.
So that's why he should sign the document ahead of time (either before having sex or shortly after having sex). That way, the courthouse would have the document on file in time. He might end up not needing the document. But the courthouse has the document just in case.
Or to make things simpler:
Each guy only has one document, and it applies to any female he has sex with
Since you have never had sex and apparently have no experience with the court system I will just say if people "men" can not be bothered with taking time to know the person they are about to "do" and put on a condom what on Gods green earth makes you think they will sign and have notarized a document and file it with the court stating they will not be responsible for any resulting child. And what makes you believe a court would uphold this open document? At the very least, the other party "the woman" would have to consent by signing and notarizing the document as well.
Since you have never had sex and apparently have no experience with the court system I will just say if people "men" can not be bothered with taking time to know the person they are about to "do" and put on a condom what on Gods green earth makes you think they will sign and have notarized a document and file it with the court stating they will not be responsible for any resulting child. And what makes you believe a court would uphold this open document? At the very least, the other party "the woman" would have to consent by signing and notarizing the document as well.
If the woman had to sign the document, that would defeat the purpose. The whole purpose of the document is so the woman can't force the man to pay.
And I think it's a good thing when people get to know each other before having sex. But the woman could change her mind or lie to trap the man into child support. That's what the document is trying to avoid.
And condoms can fail. Seriously. Some of the posters on this thread need to stop assuming the man didn't use a condom if he got her pregnant.
Because vasectomies can fail. The hypothetical document can't fail. The hypothetical document is a foolproof way to make sure a man never ends up paying for a kid.
Yes, vasectomies fail.....but it is VERY, VERY rare. If the man follows instructions and gets his semen tested regularly......vasectomy is nearly 100% effective.
The fact that you so easily dismiss vasectomy as a viable answer to a man NEVER having to pay child support, just shows me that you really are not serious about this subject......you just want to argue.
Using your logic.....you should NEVER take advantage of ANY medical procedure........ just because there have been failures. Take no medication, have no surgery......because there is a failure rate. No heart meds, no heart surgery, no chemo, no insulin for diabetics and on and on.....because all of these things have cases that have failed.
Frankly, dismissing vasectomy on this basis is ridiculous and immature.
I am starting to think you are AFRAID of having the procedure done.....you are afraid of having your "business" cut. Period.
If a man is truly serious about never having children and never paying for an unwanted child......having a vasectomy is his absolute best line of defense.
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