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Oh, you mean the French system where copays are between 10%-40% and where 92% of citizens have complimentary private health insurance? (both costs of which are commonly left out of statistics).
France's health care system is currently 11% of their GDP (see reference below) which makes it the third most expensive health care system in the world. Or I could talk about the 18% tax that all French citizens pay for health care alone...would you be OK with a tax hike of 18% for health insurance?
I can go into detail about any of these numbers if you want. Or do you want to read a bit more and trust charts from the news a little less before you continue this conversation?
Read this for reference:
Tanner, Michael D. (2008) “The Grass Is Not Always Greener: A Look at National Health Care Systems Around the World” Cato Policy Analysis no. 613.
EDIT:
As I said before - please re-do the graph adding in supplemental insurance costs for countries with nationalized health care. that graph does not include those. You keep ignoring costs spent in the private sector on supplemental insurance in countries with nationalized plans! When you have a new graph which includes that information, let me know.
This is from Wiki:
THE FRENCH SYSTEM
Quote:
France, like other countries in Europe, has a system of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita, a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies.[2]
Most general physicians are in private practice but draw their income from the public insurance funds. These funds, unlike their German counterparts, have never gained self-management responsibility. Instead, the government has taken responsibility for the financial and operational management of health insurance (by setting premium levels related to income and determining the prices of goods and services refunded).[1] The French National Health Service generally refunds patients 70% of most health care costs, and 100% in case of costly or long-term ailments. Supplemental coverage may be bought from private insurers, most of them nonprofit, mutual insurers. Until recently, coverage was restricted to those who contributed to social security (generally, workers or retirees), excluding some poor segments of the population; the government of Lionel Jospin put into place "universal health coverage" and extended the coverage to all those legally resident in France. Only about 3.7% of hospital treatment costs are reimbursed through private insurance, but a much higher share of the cost of spectacles and prostheses (21.9%), drugs (18.6%) and dental care (35.9%) (Figures from the year 2000). There are public hospitals, non-profit independent hospitals (which are linked to the public system), as well as private for-profit hospitals.
Average life expectancy in France at birth is 81 years.[3][4]
The U.S. Census Bureau reported that a record 50.7 million residents (which includes 9.9 million non-citizens) or 16.7% of the population were uninsured in 2009.[1][2] More money per person is spent on health care in the USA than in any other nation in the world,[3][4] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the USA than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[4] Although not all people are insured, the USA has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita, because of the high cost of medical care in the country.[clarification needed][5][6] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 46.2% of all personal bankruptcies and in 2007, 62.1% of filers for bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses.[7] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.[8]
Active debate about health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, choice, value, and quality. Some have argued that the system does not deliver equivalent value for the money spent. The USA pays twice as much yet lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, though the relation between these statistics to the system itself is debated. Currently, the USA has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][9] The United States life expectancy is 42nd in the world, after some other industrialized nations, lagging the other nations of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[10]
Life expectancy in the USA is 42nd in the world, below most developed nations and some developing nations. It is below the average life expectancy for the European Union.[11][12] The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[13][14] The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries,[15] and notes U.S. care costs the most.[16]
The USA is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e., some kind of private or public health insurance).[17] In 2004, the Institute of Medicine report observed "lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States."[17] while a 2009 Harvard study estimated that 44,800 excess deaths occurred annually due to lack of health insurance.[18]
One may bemoan France copayment of 23% (100% - 77%) but nobody in France has to declare bankruptcy because they have cancer. That copayment is also smaller because France's costs are 1/2 that of the U.S.
One may bemoan France copayment of 23% (100% - 77%) but nobody in France has to declare bankruptcy because they have cancer. That copayment is also smaller because France's costs are 1/2 that of the U.S.
France is cheaper than the US system right now, but it is still one of the most expensive systems in the world. Also, the proposed legislation does not address the real issues with the expense of the US system (tort reform anyone?).
Just as the cost of healthcare ROSE in France after the inception of nationalize health care, so will the total cost in America. But hey - most people don't read into the real numbers, and most people don't want to do the math to figure out the true costs, so we can all sleep better at night for a few years even IF dramatically higher costs are coming.
One may bemoan France copayment of 23% (100% - 77%) but nobody in France has to declare bankruptcy because they have cancer. That copayment is also smaller because France's costs are 1/2 that of the U.S.
the french system (what they spend by the GOVERNMENT) is cheaper, but they also spend on PRIVATE INSURANSE alse
plus its the COST of care
a RN in France makes about 18000-20000 dollars annually...in the usa the average RN makes 40,000-72,000 dollars annually
you want european style singlepayer , then you want nurses making minimum wage
plus lets' not forget the usa has the hightest corporate (business) taxes in the world
One may bemoan France copayment of 23% (100% - 77%) but nobody in France has to declare bankruptcy because they have cancer. That copayment is also smaller because France's costs are 1/2 that of the U.S.
In 1999-2000, 69% of Americans got health insurance through their employers. In 2008-2009, that was down to 61%. That is a substantial reduction during "good times". And Texas happens to be one of the eleven states that saw a decline by more than 10%, from 62% in 1999-2000 to 51.5% in 2008-2009.
Most Americans that lost employer-sponsored coverage during the period happen to be from the moderate income group (200-399% of federal poverty level).
In 1999-2000, 69% of Americans got health insurance through their employers. In 2008-2009, that was down to 61%. That is a substantial reduction during "good times". And Texas happens to be one of the eleven states that saw a decline by more than 10%, from 62% in 1999-2000 to 51.5% in 2008-2009.
Most Americans that lost employer-sponsored coverage during the period happen to be from the moderate income group (200-399% of federal poverty level).
and???
most businesses would love to see a singlepayer...no more cost to them
but singlepayer would certainly hurt the tax payer
Hint first: I quoted an excerpt from today's Dallas Morning News. It was NOT an opinion.
Having said that, why would single payer system hurt a person more?
do you actually ask why???
look at the cost of insurance....not care(which is higher) but insurance
a person gets insurance though thier work..the work pays about 75% of that cost..so the individual is paying (an example) $250 a month, yet the business is paying 750 a month......and that is for each employee
with single payer..the business will no longer have that expanse,,and you know darn well they will not give the employees a raise....but the TAXPAYER...ie the working individual woll get socked with the ENTIRE cost of health care
health care costs (actual care) will be well over 2.5 to5 TRILLION(some even say higher) a YEAR, and CONSTANTLY raising.....divide that by the 110 million taxpayers..and you are looking at an avaergae cost of 25,000 to 50,000 (or higher) to EACH TAXPAYER....can you (as an individual person)afford that
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