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Whereas the low rate of teen pregnancy in countries such as Holland, Sweden, Norway, can be explained how ?
Most continental Western European countries have very low teenage birth rates. This is varyingly attributed to good sex education and high levels of contraceptive use (in the case of the Netherlands and Scandinavia), traditional values and social stigmatization (in the case of Spain and Italy) or both (in the case of Switzerland).[3] Teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and http://www.unicef-irc.org/publicatio.../repcard3e.pdf
The Netherlands: The Netherlands has a low rate of births and abortions among teenagers (5 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19 in 2002[1]). Compared to countries with higher teenage birth rates, the Dutch have a higher average age at first intercourse and increased levels of contraceptive use (including the "double Dutch" method of using both a hormonal contraception method and a condom. Epidemiology of teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mediterranean countries: In some countries, such as Italy and Spain, the low rate of adolescent pregnancy (6 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19 in 2002 in both countries [1]) may be attributed to traditional values and social stigmatization. These two countries also have low abortion rates (lower than Sweden and the other Nordic countries[8]) and their teenage pregnancy rates are
among the lowest in Europe. Epidemiology of teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That is usually the case, isn't it? Two or three anonymous people say something you want to believe so by golly, it must be true.
And then you repeat it as if it is factual!
You say your arguments have been verified? With what? Hearsay. Hilarious!
I linked to a study with facts. You didn't address it and most certainly didn't attempt to refute it. Your failure to do so is an admission of defeat and a testament to your intellectual dishonesty. If you, or the 3 anonymous posters, had facts to refute it, you should have brought them.
You see, I am not afraid of facts like you are.
Every one of your pet right wing theories on sex education as been discredited on this thread. Not only from actual Europeans who know you don't know what the heck you are talking about, but from objective data regarding STD rates, and teenage pregnancy rates. You're basically just a right wing scold trying to spread your so called morality on people and societies much more intellectually advanced than you are.
Most continental Western European countries have very low teenage birth rates. This is varyingly attributed to good sex education and high levels of contraceptive use (in the case of the Netherlands and Scandinavia), traditional values and social stigmatization (in the case of Spain and Italy) or both (in the case of Switzerland).[3] Teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is random musings by someone on the internet, with no citations for the speculation that family values have anything to do with lower rates of teen pregnancy in the Mediterraneans.
This is a good resource on teen pregnancy numbers. I ony had time to skim it, but I could still not find any research on family values having anything to do with lower rates in the mediterraneans. It also speculates on the subject, with phrases such as "could be" and "might". Whereas the sex ed link was at least supported by interviews. Did I miss a bit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara
Mediterranean countries: In some countries, such as Italy and Spain, the low rate of adolescent pregnancy (6 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19 in 2002 in both countries [1]) may be attributed to traditional values and social stigmatization. These two countries also have low abortion rates (lower than Sweden and the other Nordic countries[8]) and their teenage pregnancy rates are
among the lowest in Europe. Epidemiology of teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Same again. Random suppositions of an anonymous person on the net with no citation. And no explanation for why Portugal differs from the family-culturally similar countries.
Are they also going to teach them how to do oral sex on each other? Whoops, Clinton already has the kids here doing it and thinking it is ok.
All I know is when I was a teen we didn't have the teen pregnancies we do now or the STDs. I guess that is why people think we have gone off course, duh. We had it but from stats you will see it wasn't rampant, like it is now. Makes any smart person wonder what is so different now and point to that as the downfall. If sex education is so wonderful why is it not working?
Also, teen pregnancies cause the kids to live in poverty. Maybe it is a social problem that affects all of us after all.
Every one of your pet right wing theories on sex education as been discredited on this thread. Not only from actual Europeans who know you don't know what the heck you are talking about, but from objective data regarding STD rates, and teenage pregnancy rates. You're basically just a right wing scold trying to spread your so called morality on people and societies much more intellectually advanced than you are.
This is random musings by someone on the internet, with no citations for the speculation that family values have anything to do with lower rates of teen pregnancy in the Mediterraneans.
This is a good resource on teen pregnancy numbers. I ony had time to skim it, but I could still not find any research on family values having anything to do with lower rates in the mediterraneans. It also speculates on the subject, with phrases such as "could be" and "might". Whereas the sex ed link was at least supported by interviews. Did I miss a bit?
Same again. Random suppositions of an anonymous person on the net with no citation. And no explanation for why Portugal differs from the family-culturally similar countries.
You seem to be rejecting it, but not refuting it.
You'll need factual evidence to refute the factual evidence.
ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader
Did I miss a bit?
It took you about an hour to respond, so you expect me to believe that you thoroughly read and thoughtfully considered all the cited sources?
You're wasting my time.
Last edited by scarlet_ohara; 06-16-2011 at 04:56 PM..
Reason: edit to add
Anyway, your above argument sounds like it came straight from an American conservative about the US [right padcrasher? Rafius must be an evil American repub?]
Aaaaaaahahahahaha!!! Not me. In fact I consider myself to be 'Revolutionary Socialist'. I have no problem whatsoever with people moving to another country to better their lives...in fact, it's the very thing that I did. However, I do feel that if you do that you should be able to at least support yourself on a basic level.
Quote:
Imagine millions of illigal immigrants milking the system.
They are not 'illegal'. As Europeans they have a perfect right to move unhindered to any other European country. Doesn't alter the fact that they know more kids mean more money and benefits.
Aaaaaaahahahahaha!!! Not me. In fact I consider myself to be 'Revolutionary Socialist'. I have no problem whatsoever with people moving to another country to better their lives...in fact, it's the very thing that I did. However, I do feel that if you do that you should be able to at least support yourself on a basic level.
Shhhhhh, you will crush the American liberal dream with talk like that. A revolutionary socialist from Spain making the same argument as an American conservative!
Personal responsibility? Imagine that, padcrasher!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
They are not 'illegal'.
I know they are not illegal there. I was just saying that in addition to millions of citizens milking the US system, it has millions of illegal immigrants doing it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
As Europeans they have a perfect right to move unhindered to any other European country. Doesn't alter the fact that they know more kids mean more money and benefits.
American liberals would vilify you for stating these views --- that is, if you were living in the US.
You'll need factual evidence to refute the factual evidence.
There was no factual evidence, and no attempt to provide any. That is my point!
It was speculations in the anyone-can-edit online encyclopedia with no sources cited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara
It took you about an hour to respond, so you expect me to believe that you thoroughly read and thoughtfully considered all the cited sources?
I don't know if you are aware of how references and citation systems work. If the authors had any research or statistics supporting their musings, when writing things as "this may be due to" or "we can speculate" there would be an abbreviation refering to a source in the bibliographic references section.
A lot of the actual references there are reffered to because they have sections relevant to the subject discussed where it is cited. Not the entire paper. No-one is going to plow through x number of papers that are not cited as relevant to the argument in question.
And that brings us to the point that the argument in question was clearly presented as speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara
You're wasting my time.
I don't think you are debating this honestly. You get called out on providing backup for a statement, and provide unsupported wikipedia-statements as well as speculations from one paper, unsupported by any research.
When called on that, you claim that you have provided "facts", which is peculiar when it was just pointed out that facts is what you lack. Then you try to dismiss that lack of facts with the implications that others are somehow obliged to plow through all the references in the paper. In defiance of all logic and establihed practice.
I must conclude that you have been trying to present your personal prejudice as fact, and been unable to find anything supporting it.
There was no factual evidence, and no attempt to provide any. That is my point!
It was speculations in the anyone-can-edit online encyclopedia with no sources cited.
I don't know if you are aware of how references and citation systems work. If the authors had any research or statistics supporting their musings, when writing things as "this may be due to" or "we can speculate" there would be an abbreviation refering to a source in the bibliographic references section.
A lot of the actual references there are reffered to because they have sections relevant to the subject discussed where it is cited. Not the entire paper. No-one is going to plow through x number of papers that are not cited as relevant to the argument in question.
And that brings us to the point that the argument in question was clearly presented as speculation.
I don't think you are debating this honestly. You get called out on providing backup for a statement, and provide unsupported wikipedia-statements as well as speculations from one paper, unsupported by any research.
When called on that, you claim that you have provided "facts", which is peculiar when it was just pointed out that facts is what you lack. Then you try to dismiss that lack of facts with the implications that others are somehow obliged to plow through all the references in the paper. In defiance of all logic and establihed practice.
I must conclude that you have been trying to present your personal prejudice as fact, and been unable to find anything supporting it.
The wikipedia conclusions are supported with cited factual evidence, study and research. You are simply pretending they are not. I note that you use wikipedia when you agree with it.
Further, you imply that I blindly accepted it. I have researched the varying factors unique to each society. I simply haven't found anything to reliably refute those conclusions and clearly no one else here has either. All you did by your own admission was to scan a single document.
You accuse me of personal prejudice. So you think it's personal prejudice to acknowledge differences in societies, varying factors and varying combinations of factors, unique to each region, that make something work? Sorry, your charge is totally irrational, and your lack of intellectual curiosity is astonishing.
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Not me. In fact I consider myself to be 'Revolutionary Socialist'. I have no problem whatsoever with people moving to another country to better their lives...in fact, it's the very thing that I did. However, I do feel that if you do that you should be able to at least support yourself on a basic level.
