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Old 06-14-2011, 11:38 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,610,756 times
Reputation: 13625

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I agree, hence why I want to go after "royalty", not achievers. The Irvine family who own a million acres in Orange County CA, much of it was passed down from the ancestors who got land after the Mexican land grants in the 19th century. Government granted privilege was 150 years ago can't be competed against today.
You do realize that the Irvines (and partners) purchased that land, right? It was not acquired free of charge.

That's a far cry from the actual government granted privilege of getting free services and benefits that 47% of American households currently enjoy at the actual expense of others.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:44 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,190,745 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You do realize that the Irvines (and partners) purchased that land, right? It was not acquired free of charge.

That's a far cry from the actual government granted privilege of getting free services and benefits that 47% of American households currently enjoy at the actual expense of others.
For pennies and all because a government took and granted it to "royalty". The government protected land owners to the point of sending troops in. If land were renewable and duplicable I would have no issue but you are still talking a form of Royalty.

Royalty bothers me more than a poor family taking a few scraps.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:48 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,610,756 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
For pennies and all because a government took and granted it to "royalty".

Royalty bothers me more than a poor family taking a few scraps.
Your version of the events is more than a little twisted by your blind ideology.

This doesn't sound like 'royalty.' It's the legacy of a self-made immigrant man who started with nothing:
The Irvine Ranch=
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:50 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,190,745 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Your version of the events is more than a little twisted by your blind ideology.

This doesn't sound like 'royalty.' It's the legacy of a self-made immigrant man who started with nothing:
The Irvine Ranch=
With the help of government. I just believe in liberty, not government privilege. Sorry.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:00 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,610,756 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
With the help of government. I just believe in liberty, not government privilege. Sorry.
Your stated belief rings hollow. What have you done to cut off the 47% of American households currently receiving FREE government services and benefits at the expense of others?

In stark contrast, Irvine did not receive free land; he worked his tail off to purchase the land he acquired. He was not the grantee, nor was he a homesteader. Your ire is more appropriately directed to the grantees that SOLD the land to Irvine. THEY were the recipients of government granted privilege, not Irvine.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,230,874 times
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The problem is a gigantic government that, like all malignant cancers, has grown to the point where it has suffocated its host, the economy. The Founding Fathers told us it would grow and destroy freedom, and would have to be reined in at least once a generation. We ignored them and allowed our great nation to be ruined by insatiable and corrupt politicians.

No tax system can successfully work in America today, because our government is simply too large for our economy to support--even if you think government actually provides valuable services. The fact that much of our government is dedicated to over-regulating (taking assets away from investment and innovation) and taxing (creating perverse incentives) the very economy it parasitizes off of, makes the problem worse.

Because we allowed government to grow so large and out of the control of the people, the amount of money wasted on insanity like pork projects and war-mongering skyrocketed. Now we have a national debt so large that only massive dollar devaluation--in other words, robbing everyone of the value of their savings, investments and wages--is left as an option. The state and local governments also have incredible debt. We could liquidate the wealth of the entire nation and not pay back all the money our irresponsible politicians have borrowed; money we pay massive interest on through taxes. Interest on government debt should be labeled a "Politician Stupidity and Corruption Tax" and accounted for separately, so we can see just how bad our nation has been robbed by the traitors elected to lead us.

Our government is so insatiable that it seeks to oversee, micro-manage, and license and fee every single activity every citizen does, as well as everything else it can imagine. It will never stop growing in size or power. And THERE IS A LIMIT: we simply cannot afford to have every citizen "supervised" by one or more government employees (as happens in some modern large corporations due to perverse tax policy, where there are more "bean-counters" and supervisors than people doing productive work). The problem is that every government employee must be paid for out of taxes, and the problem is much worse now that every government employee gets compensated FAR better than the citizen supporting him.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:03 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,190,745 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Your stated belief rings hollow. What have you done to cut off the 47% of American households currently receiving FREE government services and benefits at the expense of others?

In stark contrast, Irvine did not receive free land; he worked his tail off to purchase the land he acquired. He was not the grantee, nor was he a homesteader. Your ire is more appropriately directed to the grantees that SOLD the land to Irvine. THEY were the recipients of government granted privilege, not Irvine.
For 15 years I have been a political activist fighting for liberty and I am an award winning political commercial winner.

I don't have ire, I have zeal for a free and abundant society for all.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:11 AM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,388,888 times
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Because rich people can PAY?

Geez, some people just want to hate on the poors. But if you're rich, then suddenly you're better than everybody else. Uh-huh.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:12 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,610,756 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
For 15 years I have been a political activist fighting for liberty and I am an award winning political commercial winner.
And you had NO CLUE as to the Irvines' actual history, implying that they were somehow the beneficiaries of government actions when in reality they worked hard to earn the money to PURCHASE the land from those who actually did benefit? Wow.

Quote:
I don't have ire, I have zeal for a free and abundant society for all.
Then why demonize the Irvines for doing exactly what you purport to support? You should be their biggest cheerleader. They had the LIBERTY to work hard and make wise decisions. And yet you scorn them for doing so.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:13 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,190,745 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
Because rich people can PAY?

Geez, some people just want to hate on the poors. But if you're rich, then suddenly you're better than everybody else. Uh-huh.
There is a difference between achiever rich and government privileged rich, this needs to be the focus.
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