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I don't like the pledge because of the "under God" part. I am agnostic. I don't push agnosticism or atheism though on my children and don't feel that believers are out to convert me but I do feel that they are out to convert children and the pledge's use of this phrase is just another attempt to put god into someone's life because someone else thinks everyone should believe in their god.
That said, I actually don't object to my kids saying the pledge because I don't feel that evangelism can take place by saying "under God" and I remember saying the pledge half-heartedly and not even knowing what it meant as a kid so it didn't have any long standing affect on my life. I am happy though that my son's school does not say the pledge every day.
I didn't read the whole thing but failed to see any punishment the school levied against that kid.
That's because you are woefully unfamiliar with the standards the SCOTUS has set regarding the inherently coercive nature of a public school classroom.
Just making the kid be the only one sitting down and not reciting is considered a sanction per se. That's why we don't permit school prayer with an "opt out" provision. It doesn't work, and it ostracizes impressionable kids in an insidious manner. If it were adults we were talking about, it would be a wholly different issue.
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I did see these words about the law and found that the kid probably didn't have a signed note from his parents saying he didn't have to stand.
Why the HELL would he need one?! Now you've got an equal protection issue on your hands too!
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The lawsuit also challenges a Florida law and a Palm Beach County school board policy mandating that students receive written permission from their parents before declining to recite the patriotic oath.
It's unconstitutional under the Federal AND Florida Constitutions.
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This seems to me to be typical ACLU challenging of state law and that part of their case should make the whole thing suffer.
Enthusiasm for making kids recite the meaningless pledge comes most from the christian right, the same people that label those who are different as evil, commies, or anti-American.
I don't think anyone, especially young minds, should be forced to pledge their allegiance to any cults, religions, or ideologies.
It's not like you can't burn the American flag or wipe your behind with it.
Too many looney tunes think the pledge is some form of "indoctrination" as opposed to showing the smallest form of respect for those who fought and lost their lives under the US flag in order to create and maintain what all of those who FLED socialistic/dictatorial EU fled FOR. And the looney-tunes still live here - by proxy or intentionally.
I spent many years supporting candidates and policies that would take away freedom and liberty because I supported majority rule.
I don't think it is fair to call those of us who have a deep understand of our history and how our constitution works as loony tunes.
I know conformity of the masses is comforting, it is a tool that has been used for centuries but you don't need to mock those of us who march march in lock-step.
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
Your teacher's lied to you and didn't teach you that Constitutionally speaking we are a representative Republic?
They may even question how liberty is furthered by demanding a loyalty oath be recited on a daily basis. The pledge of allegiance is a loyalty oath. We don't demand Senators or Presidents to make a loyalty oath. The oaths of office are about performing the job they are elected or appointed to do, and about not over-stepping the powers granted to office-holders by the people. Critical thinking skills, indeed.
Since you called me "un-informed", I think that gives me leeway to ask where you got your education? Because if you could READ, you would see that nowhere in any of your links was my statement contradicted. The fact that various civic organizations open their meetings with the pledge does not mean that people are "required" to make a loyalty pledge. And the pledge of allegiance IS a loyalty pledge--hence the word "allegiance". Moreover, allegiance nor fealty is not required in oaths of office. So what part of my remarks, "oh-so-informed-one", do you think you rebutted?
What exactly do you mean? Who's short-sighted? How?
Basically you are saying that it's okay to force people to do something in order to preserve their freedom. Kind of like it was okay to force Jewish people to where stars to mark them out as different, in order to preserve their place in German society.
No, not even remotely similar.
Pledging allegiance to this great and benevolent nation has absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with the things that murderous despotic regimes demanded, on pain of imprisonment, death or torture of the people under their control.
Why are people making ludicrous moral equivalencies like these?
no, the pledge is not needed every morining. I remember in HS, we just stood up, than sat down.
dumb.
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