Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Our welfare system is part of the problem. I went to high school in northern Utah (in a suburb of Salt Lake City) in a middle class neighborhood and went to a school that was mostly white and Latino.
Quite a few of my peers had babies by graduation. Quite a few of them would talk about how they had kids to get out of going to college and having to work, as though government assistance is the ticket to a good life. And, well, it does look like a ticket to the good life: if you have a kid under 18 and live in Utah, they pay for the childcare if/when you decide to go to college, you get food stamps, CHIP, Medicaid, cash allowances, welfare, WIC, you name it. And this is Utah, a very conservative state. You pay less in taxes because you have a kid, and the state will give you more scholarships because you have a kid. It is worse here in California.
One of my brother's friends got married and the state of Utah ignored her and her husband because they had no kids. So they decided to get pregnant. The state of Utah paid for the birth, and now gives them tons of social services. My brother and his friends that did not have kids were furious, because this friend was buying role playing gaming stuff on the taxpayer's dime. And the state of Utah was so happy to pay for all this, likewise for the fed.
My cousins who, like me, are in their twenties, report the same kinds of problems in Iowa and Illinois.
Most of my peers who elected to have kids out of wedlock are doing better than those of us who were more responsible. The state pays for everything; quite a few don't have jobs and don't have to work. Those of us who didn't go that route have had to deal more with the economy.
Many of my friends and I have a bitter disdain for those who have kids out of wedlock and are on welfare, because so many of them will tell you they had the kid to get out of being an adult. Or they knew that if they accidentally got knocked up, that the state would care for them.
I think the teen pregnancy problem for Latinas is probably partly cultural, but it is definitely made worse by America's welfare system.
As a single adult with no kids, the state doesn't want to help me when my luck is down and I'm not working. But if I got knocked up tomorrow, the state of California would take care of me from then on, and, apparently well enough to where I can buy whatever I want.
Don't think our welfare system isn't part of the problem. It is.
Yes our welfare system complements the culture of machismo perfectly.
Back in Central America in the impoverished classes many of these people come from, a woman never knocked up by a man is "nada". She has no importance whatsoever, she appears to have never inspired lust in a man, never was impregnated and so deserves nothing. The culture of machismo glorifies motherhood, even a single mother with 12 kids has earned a kind of respect that a single woman without kids will never have.
Same thing in the welfare office. A woman with children or at least a pregnancy can walk in and be handed every program imaginable. She will never be expected to fnd a job, her food stamps can help her lure in new boyfriends who love having a free place to stay and another uterus to fill up so he can feel very studly. A woman without children in the welfare office is also nada. She is sent away with nothing, expected to go find a job and work for a living.
But even if this is the case(which I KNOW it is) it isn't like the programs these women receive are anything spectacular. For instance when they get food stamps, usually the amount they get is minimal compared to the amount a couple w/o foodstamps spends on food, and medicaid is a low quality form of health insurance and typically from what I know requires one to spend all day just waiting on a doctor and receiving subpar treatment. And EVEN with all the programs--from section 8, to food stamps, to medicaid, etc these women and their children STILL are not middle class and live in lower class areas. Is that the sort of lifestyle people want to emulate? I don't understand having disdain for those that are getting subpar low quality entitlements and are living in areas and in environments which most of us would not want to live in anyway. I have never seen a section 8 person, or a person receiving food stamps living the life of an upper middle class, or even a middle class person.
I know a few girls that get these programs and while they don't struggle with food and medical care, they live in bad areas, will never dream of getting a house unless they get a job or get public housing(which is sh*tty), they don't have nice cars, they can't go on vacations, and when they go to school they typically choose professions that don't pay very much.
In other words in the end they don't really get ahead.
I'd much rather be that responsible citizen that has a house, lives in a good neighborhood, can go on vacations, send my kids to good schools, go to GOOD doctors without having to wait 4 hours to be treated--than to have food stamps, crappy medical care by the government, shady childcare(anything cheap and reduced will never be as good as the best daycare IMO), and section 8 crappy apartment living/public housing. Being bitter because you can't have those things doesn't make sense. I can understand frustration that people won't be more responsible, and are "costing" taxpayers money, but I don't understand being angry because you want those same subpar crappy entitlements that would most likely place you in a living environment and quality of life that is crappy anyway.
Just my thoughts.
Last edited by sunkisses87; 07-09-2011 at 01:59 PM..
Yes our welfare system complements the culture of machismo perfectly.
Back in Central America in the impoverished classes many of these people come from, a woman never knocked up by a man is "nada". She has no importance whatsoever, she appears to have never inspired lust in a man, never was impregnated and so deserves nothing. The culture of machismo glorifies motherhood, even a single mother with 12 kids has earned a kind of respect that a single woman without kids will never have.
Same thing in the welfare office. A woman with children or at least a pregnancy can walk in and be handed every program imaginable. She will never be expected to fnd a job, her food stamps can help her lure in new boyfriends who love having a free place to stay and another uterus to fill up so he can feel very studly. A woman without children in the welfare office is also nada. She is sent away with nothing, expected to go find a job and work for a living.
You are wrong. Almost every country has subcultures.
Just like the Mexican middle class culture is not the same as Mexico's machismo-culture of the lower classes, the USA has a welfare culture that is different from the middle class culture.
In fact the middle class cultures of various countries have more in common with one another but the lower classes that are pouring over the border because they have babies at a very young age and with different fathers will obviously become part of the US's welfare claseses and culture.
That's why you see so many unmarried latinas coming here to give birth, our welfare culture most definitely appeals to them. Their own culture is that of the machismo where a woman feels proud having her boyfriend impregnate her because that makes him feel manly but they also love getting Medicaid to pay for their births and the food stamps, WIC, free babysitting at Head Start centers and so on.
But you are refering to Mexicans. Latinas is not a nationality nor a culture.
I do not think Mexicans illegally travel to the US to take advantage of welfare, since there is no welfare/safety net in the USA. There is no universal healthcare, and there are no social programs such as subsidized housing similar to those in England. The USA is not Europe/Canada/Australia. The USA does not have social programs/welfare. Plz... Any intelligent person knows that. In the US the word "Socialism" is perceived as a "Sin" linked to the Soviet Union, Communism, which is stupid, because Socialism is the best system used by Europe, Canada, Australia, and many developing countries.
Mexicans illegaly relocate to the US to just work, and get higher wages than those in Mexico. There is no such thing as US welfare for Mexican Illegal immigrants. Even Mexicans in Mexico have Universal healthcare. Illegal people cannot get welfare in the USA, since they would need a Social Security Number and U.S. Citizenship. Even legal green card holders cannot apply for Welfare, because a requirement they must meet in order to qualify to apply for US citizenship via naturalization is to have a record that shows they never requested any type of walfare. Green card holders cannot apply for welfare because that basically voids their possibility to become US nationals.
I still do not know why the Social Security Number Card has the word "Social" in it. In the U.S, "Socialism" is wrong/Sin, that is what Fox News and Bill O'Really tell you everyday 24/7. A social security system that does not have social healthcare (the most important element of a social system) what a joke. I do not see where is the "Security" provided by that system. You pay the same taxes that Canadians pay but those tax dollars are used to finance the huge army, while other countries use it in a Social system that does provide security and a Safety net.
So do not talk about U.S. Welfare because it is non-existent. (compared to other countries)
When you refer to Mexicans you use the word Latin, and that word involves many people, the majority of the American continent speaks a Latin language, even the continent is named in a Latin word (America), and also many European countries are Latin, starting in Latium, Italia, the region where Roma is located. Latin/o/a is not a race nor culture.
If you want to talk about illegal Mexicans just say Mexicans. Every American country has different Culture and Demographics. Mexico and the USA have stronger links compared to those links (if any) of Mexico and other American countries.
Mexicans speak a Latin Language but that does not mean that Spanish/Portuguese/French speaking American countries have the same Mexican culture. Even Bahamians speak English and people are not uneducated to say that U.S. nationals and Bahamians share the same culture.
Your posts always carry a negative tone towards Mexicans. I really do not care about your feelings towards illegals, but I think you should show some degree of intelligence and stop using that Latin term because it sounds quite ignorant when people like you use the latin term in so many negative posts.
Mexico and the US share part of its history and genetics. You should get the fact that Mexico has a lot less to do with other American (Latin) countries (compared to the U.S.).
Also, the USA is a union of former colonies of England, Spain, and France. The USA is partially "Latin" as well.
You should post a link that leads to a trustworthy source that says that illegal Mexican teens have more babies than any other nationality in the US. Otherwise, your posts lack of credibility and are simply BS material of your obvious agenda.
And Mexico has a GDP per capita higher than many eastern European countries. Their economy is strong and growing.
Last edited by Venezuelan; 07-10-2011 at 12:01 AM..
Making it easier to take care of children isn't encouraging people to have unprotected sex now is it?
Your whole premise is that having children today is to easy, my point is that children are never easy. I had to pay out over 2000 dollars out of my pocket for my little girl that was just born four months ago.
Then all of the things you need for a child, loss of sleep, etc. Everything that parents know happens.
The government isn't making it to easy to have children.
loss of sleep, really!! it is too easy for teens to have kids, yes! because they know thier kid will be taken care of. they dont have to worry about how will they feed it. this teens dont even have a job! most teen dont know what most parents know happen. they dont know they might have to be up all night, they dont even know they have to get a job! between the government and grandma,. teens who have had a baby will be free teens AGAIN and pop out more babies.
But you are refering to Mexicans. Latinas is not a nationality nor a culture.
Mexico and Central American nations like Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador share a certain culture including language. Most of these latinas originate from these countries.
If you took out the recent immigrants - those arriving after 1980, you would probably see no difference in American hispanics and other Americans. The old hispanic families actually have the family values but also are fully assimilated into American culture.
Someone whose family was here before 1910 is certainly not the same as someone who just crossed the border yesterday.
Cultural values certainly have a lot to do with the fact that very young latinas are having babies and the fact that their mothers don't have any problem with it. It's how it is done where they come from.
Culture also has a lot to do with why these girls have such high pregnancy rates, not just live births but very high abortion rates. They begin their sexual activity at very very young ages, 12 isn't unusual. Not assimilated Americans mind you - that is rare in that group.
I used to work w/ Mexican women, and when I was pregnant with my 3rd child in my mid 30's, one of them kept telling me people would think I am the grandma rather than the mother! She was 17, and already had 3 kids. Unbelievable. It's their culture. When a girl has her period, they consider her a "woman" & fair game, just like in primitive tribal days. No big surprise, really, just look at the progress of the country's culture they come from.
Latina Teen Pregnancy Rate Deserves Recognition as National Crisis (Latina Lista) (http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2008/05/latina_teen_pregnancy_rate_deserves_reco.html - broken link)
Thoughts? And I hope any discussion about this can be civil without anyone resorting to name-calling and mindless rants
My wife taught in a primarily hispanic school in southern Arizona. It is a problem, definitely. It can also be argued that it is a cultural problem.
Solutions I can think of.
Sex ed that is more than just abstinence
Free condoms/birth control (its cheaper than pregnancies, give it out in schools, acknowledge and fix the problem, don't ignore it and hope it will go away, it won't)
After school alternatives for kids so they have things to do that they can afford outside of the bedroom (there really is nothing offered except a few sports because the schools have no money)
Educate and offer better alternatives besides sex for things to do.
My wife taught in a primarily hispanic school in southern Arizona. It is a problem, definitely. It can also be argued that it is a cultural problem.
Solutions I can think of.
Sex ed that is more than just abstinence
Free condoms/birth control (its cheaper than pregnancies, give it out in schools, acknowledge and fix the problem, don't ignore it and hope it will go away, it won't)
After school alternatives for kids so they have things to do that they can afford outside of the bedroom (there really is nothing offered except a few sports because the schools have no money)
Educate and offer better alternatives besides sex for things to do.
I think it's more than that. Most of these girls know full well that having sex with a boy will lead to pregnancy - that's why they're often on their 2nd or 3rd child at age 17.
It has more to do with their cultural beliefs that having a baby gives them status, makes them valued more than the girls that don't.
Their culture tells them they are nothing unless some boy lusts for them, that pleasing a boy or man is all that matters. They need to be taught that they don't have to be sex objects, that they can say no to a boy or man, that there can be more in life than motherhood expecially early teen motherhood.
They need to stand up to their boyfriends, HIV is a very serious problem in this group also for the same reason. Many gang initiations involve gang banging these girls and they submissively accept whatever they're told to do. The HIV rate is not decreasing. They need to learn ways to delay sexuality until they are old enough to make decisions. 12 and 13 is too early to be having sex.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Unbelievable. It's their culture. When a girl has her period, they consider her a "woman" & fair game, just like in primitive tribal days. No big surprise, really, just look at the progress of the country's culture they come from.
