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Old 07-17-2011, 02:07 AM
 
19,564 posts, read 11,093,929 times
Reputation: 7280

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swerver View Post
Because it's the mother's choice, not some other dude's choice? Are you that dense?

You are in a hospital, and it's on fire. On one side of you is a little boy, on the other side is a freezer full of hundreds of frozen embryos. You can only save the boy or the freezer. What do you do?



Of course the boy will be saved first but that is a terrible argument and doesn't answer anything nor justify it.

The beginning of your post shows that you believe a woman choice is more important than life itself.
"A mother's choice" does not make life not life anymore, "are you that dense"?


Abortion not being a murder is only make believe in the minds of those that are in favor of society allowing it only to assuage their complicit guilt that even if they won't admit it to themselves somewhere deep down inside they know it is wrong.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
10,870 posts, read 5,882,890 times
Reputation: 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
It is an obvious legal contradiction that no one will answer because it forces us to say that it is a woman's choice to decide if a child lives or dies and that the child's life is less important than the right of that woman to make this decision.

Exactly, it is a legal contradiction.

Look at it like this. If a pregnant woman is driving a car and she gets into an accident and it kills her baby. That could potentially be considered vehicular manslaughter.

Now, lets pretend a pregnant woman is driving that car to go to an abortion clinic, and on her way she gets hit by that same car and it kills her baby, is there a crime?

Lets pretend that the pregnant woman was on her way to the abortion clinic, but no one knew that she was going to the abortion clinic. Her baby is killed, and in her anger at the man for hitting her car, she charges the man with vehicular manslaughter of her unborn child, even though she was about to abort that child herself.

In these examples, the law is attempting to state that the definition of human life hinges on what kind of mood the woman is in that day.


Now lets take this a step further....

That same pregnant woman is driving her car and she gets hit, both her and her baby die. The man who hits her is charged with two counts of manslaughter instead of one.

The pregnant woman was driving to planned parenthood to find an abortion doctor, but none of her family knew she was pregnant, nor did anyone know where she was driving. She gets hit by a drunk driver, and both her and her child dies. Should there be one count of vehicular manslaughter or two? Who gets to decide?

A pregnant woman is in a car, she pulls to a stoplight and some thug-gang members start verbally assaulting her, so she tells them off and they shoot her in the face. She and her child dies. They find the gang members and they charge them with two counts of murder. The gang members said they had no idea she was pregnant. Should they be charged with two counts of murder or just one?

Again, what if the same pregnant woman was actually on her way to the abortion clinic? Would it then be a double homicide or a single homicide?



The point is, the laws are created to protect people from harm from other people. The laws we have attempt to say that the fetus is a human-being, and therefore deserves protection, but only if the woman decides that day that the fetus should be considered a human-being. I cannot think of any other law that works that way.

In absolute terms, it would be like saying a child isn't a human-being unless his parents love him.


I know the women's choice people say that, a fetus shouldn't be considered a human-being until it's viable. But if that is the case, then the law shouldn't consider a fetus to be a human-being until it's viable.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:06 AM
 
20,950 posts, read 17,724,654 times
Reputation: 10270
Double standards.

If not for them, the left would have none.

I firmly believe that abortion will one day be seen as the barbaric act that it is.

If the courts see a "fetus" as a human life, it's not long before the rest of society follow suit.
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Old 07-17-2011, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Indiana
2,047 posts, read 1,466,859 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpsTN View Post
You have two definitions of life and death, but I am the one you ask about being dense? I would certainly save the child, but that is not the issue. Libs seem to always say that fetuses are not living babies or something to that effect. How can the baby be alive and dead at the same time? If the baby is not alive, how can I be charged with killing it, but isn't alive if you abort it? My point is that you are either killing a person or you are not. If the mother, who is supposed to care more for the baby than anyone else - emotionally, I mean - can't go to jail for killing it, how can someone else? After all, aren't the libs always clammering for people to be treated equally?

Charles Sands
37129
this is a good point. guess liberals are just cleaned up and learned hippies!! theyre not smart at all. the only diffreance is, these clean up hippies dont need to be stoned out of thier mind to be useful idiots, there just idiots!
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:56 AM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,765,877 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Exactly, it is a legal contradiction.

Look at it like this. If a pregnant woman is driving a car and she gets into an accident and it kills her baby. That could potentially be considered vehicular manslaughter.

Now, lets pretend a pregnant woman is driving that car to go to an abortion clinic, and on her way she gets hit by that same car and it kills her baby, is there a crime?

Lets pretend that the pregnant woman was on her way to the abortion clinic, but no one knew that she was going to the abortion clinic. Her baby is killed, and in her anger at the man for hitting her car, she charges the man with vehicular manslaughter of her unborn child, even though she was about to abort that child herself.

In these examples, the law is attempting to state that the definition of human life hinges on what kind of mood the woman is in that day.


Now lets take this a step further....

That same pregnant woman is driving her car and she gets hit, both her and her baby die. The man who hits her is charged with two counts of manslaughter instead of one.

The pregnant woman was driving to planned parenthood to find an abortion doctor, but none of her family knew she was pregnant, nor did anyone know where she was driving. She gets hit by a drunk driver, and both her and her child dies. Should there be one count of vehicular manslaughter or two? Who gets to decide?

A pregnant woman is in a car, she pulls to a stoplight and some thug-gang members start verbally assaulting her, so she tells them off and they shoot her in the face. She and her child dies. They find the gang members and they charge them with two counts of murder. The gang members said they had no idea she was pregnant. Should they be charged with two counts of murder or just one?

Again, what if the same pregnant woman was actually on her way to the abortion clinic? Would it then be a double homicide or a single homicide?



The point is, the laws are created to protect people from harm from other people. The laws we have attempt to say that the fetus is a human-being, and therefore deserves protection, but only if the woman decides that day that the fetus should be considered a human-being. I cannot think of any other law that works that way.

In absolute terms, it would be like saying a child isn't a human-being unless his parents love him.


I know the women's choice people say that, a fetus shouldn't be considered a human-being until it's viable. But if that is the case, then the law shouldn't consider a fetus to be a human-being until it's viable.

Brilliant!
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:00 AM
 
608 posts, read 1,265,077 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
Brilliant!
Just like in education. Thanks to NCLB we have come up with new math.

Schools are judged on how well the kids do on tests.

A white kid fails=1 failure

A minority who doesn't speak English well that receives special ed services and whose parents are impoverished=6 failures

So thanks to Bush and NCLB we have a new counting system in this country.

And you wonder why our schools are doing "so badly"
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,765,877 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgy View Post
Just like in education. Thanks to NCLB we have come up with new math.

Schools are judged on how well the kids do on tests.

A white kid fails=1 failure

A minority who doesn't speak English well that receives special ed services and whose parents are impoverished=6 failures

So thanks to Bush and NCLB we have a new counting system in this country.

And you wonder why our schools are doing "so badly"
I agree with you but they were doing badly long before Bush...
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,778,706 times
Reputation: 1993
INTENT and OWNERSHIP of ones body. If the incubator(woman) intended to bring this child into the world alive then another person has committed MURDER and denied her the right to HAVE a baby. If the woman was unaware she was pregnant or planned on having an abortion and there are witnesses who can prove this then no second murder eas committed. You cannot take the life of another. While the fetus is inside a woman it is still part of HER body and relies on HER nutrients to form and grow.

It is also illegal to implant a fetus or zygote etc into a woman without her consent. Again, the owner of the body is the only one who can agree to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpsTN View Post
I recently heard of a man going to prison for the death of a woman AND her "unborn child". Why is the death of an unborn child considered a death when someone other than the mother kills the baby but not if the mother kills the baby through abortion? The unborn child is either alive or it is not. It must be a great life for libs, where they can have contradictory views and not have them conflict!

Charles Sands
37129
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,778,706 times
Reputation: 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioChic View Post
We're talking about THIRD trimester abortions here. 27 weeks and later. A baby is viable at 24 weeks. Why would you kill a baby that has a huge survival chance? There is not one not even ONE good reason to do this.
Really so if you see on ultrasound at 26 weeks that your baby has NO BRAIN And is caved in... Or that it has 2 faces like that baby on oprah and dr tells you it will DIE the second it is born if not DURING delivery you think a woman should have to carry the baby around till she goes into natural labor???? Really?
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:49 PM
 
11,037 posts, read 5,761,459 times
Reputation: 4498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
INTENT and OWNERSHIP of ones body. If the incubator(woman) intended to bring this child into the world alive then another person has committed MURDER and denied her the right to HAVE a baby. If the woman was unaware she was pregnant or planned on having an abortion and there are witnesses who can prove this then no second murder eas committed. You cannot take the life of another. While the fetus is inside a woman it is still part of HER body and relies on HER nutrients to form and grow.

It is also illegal to implant a fetus or zygote etc into a woman without her consent. Again, the owner of the body is the only one who can agree to that.
I'm impressed with the confidence of someone who states as fact something that's wrong, like this statement--- "If the woman was unaware she was pregnant or planned on having an abortion and there are witnesses who can prove this then no second murder eas committed.

Besides, you skirted the issue of why these laws are fetal 'homicide' laws. Homicide is the illegal killing of a human being. Abortion groups probably wouldn't oppose these laws if they were fetal 'property' laws, with punishment similar to breaking a car windshield rather than taking a life.
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