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Old 06-30-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Section 4 of the 14th amendment gives the president the authority to pay all debts of the United States. That prevents the need for a debt ceiling raise.

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/...-debt-ceiling/
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
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^Too bad the President doesn't control the purse strings - Congress does.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:06 PM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,986,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Section 4 of the 14th amendment gives the president the authority to pay all debts of the United States. That prevents the need for a debt ceiling raise.

The PJ Tatler » Geithner cites the 14th amendment to justify blowing past the debt ceiling
As I read it we can't question the validity of the national debt. So the debts are defacto valid.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

So all we have to say is that the current national debt is a form of insurrection and it is null and void. Hmmm.

It says law. It doesn't say president.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
^Too bad the President doesn't control the purse strings - Congress does.
The president can order the treasury to take on as much debt to pay the bills, without congress. That's what the 14th allows.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:07 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,040,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
^Too bad the President doesn't control the purse strings - Congress does.
It doesn't appear to me that Congress controls much of anything these days, especially its grip on sanity.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,382,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
As I read it we can't question the validity of the national debt. So the debts are defacto valid.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

So all we have to say is that the current national debt is a form of insurrection and it is null and void. Hmmm.

It says law. It doesn't say president.
The president represents the law, he executes it. The constitution forbids default, and he has all authority to execute the law.

Congress could file suit, but that would require a joint resolution. That's not happening
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,945,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
^Too bad the President doesn't control the purse strings - Congress does.
The money is already appropriated by Congress. The debt ceiling is about paying the bills that Congress already authorized.

If the debt ceiling is in conflict with the 14th Amend., the President is within his constitutional rights to do what he must to pay the bills that Congress authorized, even without a debt ceiling rise.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
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^But the section says the validity of the debt cannot be questioned. Exactly how does imposing a debt ceiling question the "validity" of the debt?
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,749,261 times
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Lol, the Dems better practice saying President Bachmann if he tries it.......
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,254,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The money is already appropriated by Congress. The debt ceiling is about paying the bills that Congress already authorized.

If the debt ceiling is in conflict with the 14th Amend., the President is within his constitutional rights to do what he must to pay the bills that Congress authorized, even without a debt ceiling rise.
Then why is he wasting everyone's time with this nonsense? His response to being called to Congress should just be "I don't need to get involved because I can do what I want and pay the bills."
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