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But see, it wasn't just YOU. The law was passed for the better good of the population as a whole.
We are not a collective or socialized mass to which the good of the many are placed above the good of the one. We are a society built on individual liberty as the central focus and protection of the people. A collective system intrudes on individuals for the sake of the whole, while an individual system focus on the protection of all, through that of each individual. Your reasoning is irrelevant because it is compatible with our system. There is no justification using such logic. The only reason to implement a law is to protect from an individual infringing on the rights of another individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181
The law is not removing your individual choice. You are still free to CHOOSE to not wear your seatbelt. Just be prepared to pay the fine if you are caught not doing it. From the dawn of time there has always been consequences for the choices you make. Deal with it.
Absurd reasoning. The consequences are not natural to the action, they are manufactured to demand conformity. A consequence to ones action is a direct natural result of said action. One is not free when an artificial penalty is put in place to curb such actions. A consequence is that for instance of playing with fire. If one does so carelessly, they may get burned. Being burned is the consequence of ones action and its lesson is that fire is hot, and can burn you. The consequence of having to pay a fine because you may play with fire is a lesson that people are oppressive and choose to dictate their idiotic personal means of control on others. It is an "additional" consequence and has nothing to do with the action being fined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181
So...you're saying that it's never ok for someone to decide what is best for you eh? By that logic parents will never be able to decide what is best for their children? Sorry sir, I must disagree.
Your premise is invalid. You might as well argue that a baby has complete right to choose for themselves and a parent teaching them is "infringing" on their individual liberty. This is an absurd argument and an evasion of the issue presented. We are talking about adults, those who have reached the recognized age to which is considered able to make decisions under their own authority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181
There is the entire problem with your arguement. It's contradictive in and of itself. So I am to "accept the individual liberties of another" huh? Nah. I only have to be comfortable with my personal liberties. Personally, I'm fine with the goverment telling me that I have to wear a seatbelt. I'm fine with the goverment telling me that I have to wear a helmet on my motorcycle. I ONLY have to accept MY OWN personal freedoms and liberties.
There is no contradiction, it is simply that you are unwilling to accept that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions and unwilling to accept that people are free to choose to live and function as they choose to which they are beholden to all of the consequences that may come from such decisions.
Though you have made such a decision to accept being directed under such. that is well within your right to choose. You however have no right to decide such for another. The fact that you would enslave yourself to another has no bearing on the legitimacy of forcing that same decision on another.
This is the problem with peoples reasoning today. You are fine with it, so you see no problems infringing on others because... well you agree. That is, you have a complete disregard for individual liberty other than that which specifically relates to your own. You are ok with it because you agree. The summary of your position is that you do not respect individual liberty as its concept to that which this nation stands and are simply a self interested party attempting to use government as a means to dictate your own personal conformity on society.
As I said, either you respect individual liberty or you do not, by your argument, it is apparent you do not. Respecting ones own individual liberty at the expense of others is not one who supports individual liberty, but one who supports dictation of their values on others.
This will be the very attitude to which will allow governments to enslave all people as while people are selfishly handing away the rights of others, they will fail to see that they have empowered the government to remove their own as well.
I wish the automobile manufacturers would release crash test videos of what actually occurs to the human body inside the vehicle even in a low impact crash.
There are people like the OP who feel they don't need to wear their seat belt. If they are rear ended at a stop light and their head strikes the steering wheel or windshield, they may suffer a closed head injury with excruciating daily headaches, loss of memory, attention, speech defects, inability to function any longer on a job. They will be the biggest whiners about the pain they are experiencing.
With an on-road rollover roof crush, which occurs quite often, you can count yourself as history if you're not wearing your seat belt, particularly if you're in an SUV or minivan. You know those toys that are on a rubber band and you hold two ends and spin them around and then release them? You remember how the toy in the middle spins rapidly? That is the same violent effect your car experiences on a highway going over 65 miles an hour. You are going to go out a window, even if it's closed, possibly be crushed by the vehicle, you will be smacking your head on the pavement of the road several times as the vehicle rolls over before being thrown out of the car.
A family of six was driving in a mini van, only one child and the driver had their seat belts on. The driver had been driving all night, his driver's side front wheel just ran off the road as the driver was drowsy. He overcorrected (which the majority of drivers do unless they're a NASCAR driver or you're driving a Hummer), flipped the car on the road, which rolled over several times. Two children were sleeping on the luggage in the back of the van, one child was seatbelted in the backseat. A 330 pound man was reclined in the front passenger seat. The rear window broke, the 330 pound man and one of the little children literally squeezed out the rear window together, crushing the little 5 year old girl. She was dead before she hit the ground, but her skull and body were crushed. The driver survived, one other adult survived but is in a wheelchair and severely brain damaged, and the child seat belted survived. It took a while to find the other child who was thrown so far from the crash whose face had been ripped off, along with other horrific injuries.
You don't have a right to not wear your seat belt. You can pound your chest and say it's your right and you'll deal with the consequence, but when you're a vegetable in a wheel chair and a burden on your family or society, frankly, I think you're being a selfish . . . . .
When it comes to motorcycle helmet laws, I say yes, and I'm for strict enforcement. The motorcyclist always loses, and is often severely disabled for life and unable to work again.
Your individual opinion as to such does not override that of the individual liberty of another to choose for themselves to take such risks. If someone is willing to take such risks, then that is the consequence they may have to deal with.
To argue that some will end up on government assistance because of their actions is not justification for removing the rights of all. It is a fallacious argument of slippery slope means. Not all end up as such with a result as you describe.
all the studies surveys show how important seat belts are, and i believe most, if not all states have the click it or ticket campaign.
shouldnt it be left up to us whether or not we wear a seat belt. it only impacts us, doesnt harm anybody else.
at the same time this is something most people are ok with being forced to do.
imo we shouldnt need a law on the books, and leave it up to the people.
i myself rarely wear my seatbelt. not overweight or anything, just dont like the feel of it.
The seatbelt laws impact passengers as well.
If we don't have a law forcing Mary Ellen and Jim Bob to put their children in saftey belts and cars seats--the children will suffer death or injury upon impact.
~enough said!
The seatbelt laws impact passengers as well.
If we don't have a law forcing Mary Ellen and Jim Bob to put their children in saftey belts and cars seats--the children will suffer death or injury upon impact.
~enough said!
So?
It is none of your business what others do.
I love nanny statists,they don't even realise what little control freaks they really are.
In 20 years in the car business as a sales rep, manager, dealer principle and finance manager, I've met at least 100 people who told me that they wouldn't be here if not for a seat belt.
I do not leave the driveway without wearing mine.
That being said, I believe that it is a personal choice which should be left to the individual, except when it comes to kids.
I don't know about other states, but NJ has seat belt checks. It really pisses me off. It's like the gestapo.
Don't we have a constitution?
I tend to agree with you. I have not read all the replies to this thread, but I am sure that someone has mentioned that people who are severely injured, with brain trauma, tend to not be able to work for a living and usually must go on some kind of assistance, including Medicaid.
Since my hard-earned tax dollars go to fund these programs, I feel that *I* have the right to say that people should be forced to wear seat belts. Yes, I am all for personal liberty. But your personal liberty ends where MY pocket book begins.
My brother is a paramedic that has responded to many, many car accidents.
I wear a seat belt, law or not.
As should be your choice if you decide. The issue is not if it is safe are not, but that of a government (ultimately your neighbors and people around you) being able to dictate to you the choice you will make.
Hypothetical.
What if lets say that the new research found statistically wearing a seat belt was more dangerous, that the old research improperly evaluated and came to a false conclusion. What if then the law was changed to claim people can not wear their seat belt because of such, for their own safety?
Remember, this is a hypothetical, whether this could ever happen or be supported as such is irrelevant. The point of the hypothetical to to get you to understand the true problem here, which is a removal of individual choice to determine for yourself.
In this case, you believe seat belts to be safer, but the law would then be claiming you must abide by their decisions, not your own, for your own safety as they claim. Do you accept such and follow the law because the law demands such for yourself, even though you may disagree with it? Should you not be able to make the decision yourself and take the risks associated with it because you know it to be safer?
Now certainly, in this case it isn't such an issue, but there are laws all through our system that mandate such conditions when those conditions are contrary to actual means. That is, their suggestions are invalid and improperly formed through political push and not logical position. Since it only concerns you, wouldn't it be better for you to decide or do you think you have no rights, no liberties and should be dictated to as often noble's believed peasants should be dictated to in times of past?
See the problem? The choice should be the individuals. They should be able to take the risks as they see and as it pertains to any specific situation.
We are not a collective or socialized mass to which the good of the many are placed above the good of the one.
I always suspected Americans secretly wanted to be anarchists.
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Safety Belts
