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Old 07-06-2011, 02:18 PM
 
28,614 posts, read 11,075,483 times
Reputation: 7501
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
You have no idea do you? The treaty was never ratified to say that ALL the states had to abide by it. They F'd up. They are trying to ram that through now. Not going to work, their F up caused all of this. Too bad, soo sad. They are a day late and a dollar short. This guy is a goner. If this was so important, how come this new legislation wasn't right after Obama got in or at the end of GWB's term? Is it because they didn't care too much about it until Obama was up for re-election? I think so.
Uh, duh. Of course I understand that they f'd up.

Why don't you answer the question, though? Do you think the welfare of Americans abroad is important enough to delay an execution six months? Do you want other countries to think that the United States honors its treaties, or that we are a people who don't honor their treaties?

Because there is no question that this guy is in jail, sitting on death row. The new legislation isn't going to change that. In all likelihood, shortly after the new legislation is passed, this guy will be executed. If the Mexican consulate has an opportunity to speak to him, to help him with his final arrangements, is that really skin off your nose?
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
73,628 posts, read 33,966,696 times
Reputation: 17546
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Uh, duh. Of course I understand that they f'd up.

Why don't you answer the question, though? Do you think the welfare of Americans abroad is important enough to delay an execution six months? Do you want other countries to think that the United States honors its treaties, or that we are a people who don't honor their treaties?

Because there is no question that this guy is in jail, sitting on death row. The new legislation isn't going to change that. In all likelihood, shortly after the new legislation is passed, this guy will be executed. If the Mexican consulate has an opportunity to speak to him, to help him with his final arrangements, is that really skin off your nose?
Precedent was already set when they told Bush NO in 2008.
What's different today ?
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:20 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 5,184,451 times
Reputation: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Uh, duh. Of course I understand that they f'd up.

Why don't you answer the question, though? Do you think the welfare of Americans abroad is important enough to delay an execution six months? Do you want other countries to think that the United States honors its treaties, or that we are a people who don't honor their treaties?

Because there is no question that this guy is in jail, sitting on death row. The new legislation isn't going to change that. In all likelihood, shortly after the new legislation is passed, this guy will be executed. If the Mexican consulate has an opportunity to speak to him, to help him with his final arrangements, is that really skin off your nose?
What don't you understand? Texas isn't breaking anything! There was never anything in that treaty that held ALL of our states to this. So what you are saying is wrong, other countries can't say we are not honoring it, we are, the way it was written. So they can go pound sand!
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:21 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 5,184,451 times
Reputation: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Precedent was already set when they told Bush NO in 2008.
What's different today ?
Because Obama said so.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: South FL
5,085 posts, read 3,851,228 times
Reputation: 3074
Texas doesn't play around.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:31 PM
 
28,614 posts, read 11,075,483 times
Reputation: 7501
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Precedent was already set when they told Bush NO in 2008.
What's different today ?
I already posted the difference.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:32 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 5,184,451 times
Reputation: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I already posted the difference.
That doesn't matter. He's a goner. Too bad, soo sad.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:35 PM
 
28,614 posts, read 11,075,483 times
Reputation: 7501
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
What don't you understand? Texas isn't breaking anything! There was never anything in that treaty that held ALL of our states to this. So what you are saying is wrong, other countries can't say we are not honoring it, we are, the way it was written. So they can go pound sand!
We are not honoring the treaty. Perhaps you should read the treaty itself. Because there is no ambiguity about what is supposed to happen when a foreign national is taken into custody. Texas did not follow the process, because our Congress has not compelled them to do so. But Texas's actions put all Americans, not just Texans, into jeopardy when they are abroad. And other countries don't have to "pound sand." They can take Americans into custody in their countries, and not advise them of their rights, not notify the American consulate, deny the American consulate access, deny the Americans legal counsel of any kind. In which case, if Americans want to protest, they would be the ones pounding sand.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:37 PM
 
570 posts, read 227,292 times
Reputation: 347
All this talk of the Geneva Conventions is stupid.

We shouldn't follow them. Nor should anyone else.

They were made 70 years ago and the world has changed dramatically since them.

There definitely should be rules etc.

But no longer are wars fought between honorable opponents with Generals who respected each other and the art of war.

The Geneva convention became worthless once warsstarted being instigated by non-national actors who hide behind the governments that harbor them

Terrorists have changed everything.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:37 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 5,184,451 times
Reputation: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
We are not honoring the treaty. Perhaps you should read the treaty itself. Because there is no ambiguity about what is supposed to happen when a foreign national is taken into custody. Texas did not follow the process, because our Congress has not compelled them to do so. But Texas's actions put all Americans, not just Texans, into jeopardy when they are abroad. And other countries don't have to "pound sand." They can take Americans into custody in their countries, and not advise them of their rights, not notify the American consulate, deny the American consulate access, deny the Americans legal counsel of any kind. In which case, if Americans want to protest, they would be the ones pounding sand.
Oh boohoo, Texas is NOT doing anything wrong! My advice to you is, don't break any laws in other countries and you'll be fine. I'm not worried about it.
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