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Do you know what it means to be catholic? It's not just a social organization. If you believe differently or act differently you should be kicked out--along with all the other hypocrites. I wouldn't expect to be called a muslim if I believed muhammed was a murderous thug who lied.
Actually it pretty much is a superficial organization today. In Britain for instance 70% of the students at Catholic schools are Muslims.
Your Muslim analogy is flawed in that gay Catholics do believe in Jesus as the pillar of their religion. But since you brought up Islam, you have a similar dispute in Islam where many Druze consider themselves Muslims, while most Muslims don't consider them fellow Muslims because of some details of their belief.
Um, it's not the 14th Amendment that allowed judges to rule constitutionality, it's the most important Supreme Court decision in history - Marbury v. Madison (1803).
This case has to do with Jucidial review, it has nothing to do with gay-marriage and its legality. What I was discussing has everything to do with the 14th amendment.
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Case law (legislating from the bench) is not some new fangled idea Americans fabricated with the passing of the 14th Amendment. It's how our legal system was founded.
Do you have any clue what I was actually referring to?
I was responding to this....
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Hence why laws banning interracial marriage were deemed invalid law and why laws banning same-sex marriage (like DOMA and its state level equivalents) will soon be deemed invalid law (well, they already have been by many, many lower level courts - just a matter of time till the Supreme Court jumps in.
He is right, the Supreme court could eventually have the say on gay-marriage. With the stroke of their pen, they could force the 44 states that currently do not allow same-sex marriage to allow them. How is this possible? And was this always the case?
So let me explain why almost all court rulings on morality are based on the 14th amendment.
1) The first amendment. Things like Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, etc. Yeah, it was originally only a limitation on the Federal government, it wasn't extended to be a limitation on the states until the introduction of the 14th amendment, which prevents the states from taking away the "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."
Recently there was a decision by the Supreme court that overturned a statute in California that prohibited the sale of violent video games to children. The decision went 7-2 based on freedom of speech. In the decision, Scalia said that while the state of California doesn't have any right to ban the sale of violent video games to children, but that it would probably have the right to ban the sale of sexual video games to children(based on what exactly? not freedom of speech?).
The truth is, California should have had the right to prohibit the sale of the video game, PERIOD. And without the 14th amendment, the supreme court would have absolutely no say in the matter.
2) The Equal protection clause. This is the foundation of practically every civil-rights law that exists. It is the foundation for things like affirmative-action and forced busing. And it is what would be evoked when gay-marriage goes before the supreme court.
So what else has been decided on the 14th amendment? Here is a partial list.
Roe v. Wade(made abortions legal everywhere), Brown v. Board of Education(desegregation of schools and forced busing), Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission(corporate personhood), United States v. Wong Kim Ark(birthright citizenship), Plyler v. Doe(requires states to provide educations for illegal immigrants), McDonald v. Chicago(overturned Chicago's firearm ban), Lawrence v. Texas(struck down the sodomy laws of Texas), West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish(minimum wage), Mississippi University for Women v. Hogan(made man or female only colleges illegal), Bush v. Gore(the Supreme court handed Bush the presidency).
Wow, what a different world we would live in without the 14th amendment....
But more importantly, does the 14th amendment even exist?
What I find interesting are gays the first to cry for the seperation of church to not be involved state in order to get married.
But then want the state to get involved in the church so they can go to the church
No clue what you're talking about. Marriage only requires a government license, not a religious ceremony.
However, there are some gays who are also strong believers and members of a church. Many of them would like to be married in a religious setting.
Stop assuming all gays are identical. The church has no business being involved with secular marriage. If some gays want to join a church that might marry them, that's their prerogative, but it has nothing to do with separation of church and state.
Actually it pretty much is a superficial organization today. In Britain for instance 70% of the students at Catholic schools are Muslims.
Don't confuse the catholic schools with catholicism. The schools are not the church. I've known a lot of Evangelicals that grew up going to catholic schools. They were not catholic, nor did they pretend to be.
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Your Muslim analogy is flawed in that gay Catholics do believe in Jesus as the pillar of their religion.
But they do ignore many of the essential catholic teachings.
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But since you brought up Islam, you have a similar dispute in Islam where many Druze consider themselves Muslims, while most Muslims don't consider them fellow Muslims because of some details of their belief.
Have to go to bed, good night ^^
With any religion, there are some basic, essential doctrines that you must believe. I respect a religion, or a person claiming it, if they don't recognize that.
The Catholic Church is a private institution. If you don't like its rules and regulations, get the **** out. Its all about freedom of choice. The gay deceased man liked to call himself a Catholic, but then broken the very tenets of the religion that he supposedly believed in. Gods laws according to the Cannons are very simple. It's my way or the highway to hell. What's so hard about that to understand?
Yeah, those laws are so simple that they created 35,000+ denominations of Christianity who can't agree on what they say. Only ignorant fundamentalists who assume the King James Bible or NIV is the literal and inerrant Word of God would make such a ridiculous statement.
Maybe he was simply born into that crap religion Plus, there are so many other Catholics who for various reasons are not in line with the dogmas of that Church...
According to recent polls, over half of the world's Catholics support same-sex marriage. Just because the institution and its leader are archaic and behind the times, doesn't mean most of its adherents actually agree.
Do you know what it means to be catholic? It's not just a social organization. If you believe differently or act differently you should be kicked out--along with all the other hypocrites. I wouldn't expect to be called a muslim if I believed muhammed was a murderous thug who lied.
If being a hypocrite was the criteria for kicking someone out of a religious organization - religious organizations would not have any members.
This case has to do with Jucidial review, it has nothing to do with gay-marriage and its legality. What I was discussing has everything to do with the 14th amendment.
Judicial review allows the court to strike down unconstitutional laws, such as the Defense of Marriage Act. It has lots to do with gay marriage and its legality.
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He is right, the Supreme court could eventually have the say on gay-marriage. With the stroke of their pen, they could force the 44 states that currently do not allow same-sex marriage to allow them. How is this possible? And was this always the case?
Is this necessarily a bad thing? 80% of Americans opposed interracial marriage in 1967. How many Americans supported segregation? Not sure, but probably a lot. We know a lot of people oppose legal abortion. Is removing the Court's ability to protect minorities when the majority wants to deprive them of rights a good thing?
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So let me explain why almost all court rulings on morality are based on the 14th amendment.
1) The first amendment. Things like Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, etc. Yeah, it was originally only a limitation on the Federal government, it wasn't extended to be a limitation on the states until the introduction of the 14th amendment, which prevents the states from taking away the "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."
Recently there was a decision by the Supreme court that overturned a statute in California that prohibited the sale of violent video games to children. The decision went 7-2 based on freedom of speech. In the decision, Scalia said that while the state of California doesn't have any right to ban the sale of violent video games to children, that it would probably have the right to ban the sale of sexual video games to children(based on what exactly?).
The truth is, California should have had the right to prohibit the sale of the video game, PERIOD. And without the 14th amendment, the supreme court would have absolutely no say in the matter.
2) The Equal protection clause. This is the foundation of practically every civil-rights law that exists. It is the foundation for things like affirmative-action and forced busing. And it is what would be evoked when gay-marriage goes before the supreme court.
So what else has been decided on the 14th amendment? Here is a partial list.
Roe v. Wade(made abortions legal everywhere), Brown v. Board of Education(desegregation of schools and forced busing), Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission(corporate personhood), United States v. Wong Kim Ark(birthright citizenship), Plyler v. Doe(requires states to provide educations for illegal immigrants), McDonald v. Chicago(overturned Chicago's firearm ban), Lawrence v. Texas(struck down the sodomy laws of Texas), West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish(minimum wage), Mississippi University for Women v. Hogan(made man or female only colleges illegal), Bush v. Gore(the Supreme court handed Bush the presidency).
Wow, what a different world we would live in without the 14th amendment....
Yes, I agree. The 14th Amendment is arguably the most powerful and possibly abused amendment in the Constitution. Does that mean it shouldn't be there? Should we go back to banning interracial marriage, segregation, making abortion illegal, making homosexuality illegal, etc.?
I'd say more benefit has come out of the 14th Amendment interpretations than negatives. And while this may not be accurate, in my opinion, even though I disagree with some of their rulings and some of their members (cough* Scalia), I have a little more trust in 9 extremely intelligent legal scholars than I do with the current crop of pop star politicians. It's freakin hard to get on the Supreme Court. Considering who our current crop of politicians and presidential candidates are, it doesn't require a brain or logic to be a Senator or President. It's all a big popularity contest. I don't trust them to look out for minorities.
If being a hypocrite was the criteria for kicking someone out of a religious organization - religious organizations would not have any members.
That may well be so, unfortunately. Too bad more churches don't practice church discipline and clear their rolls of people that don't actually believe.
Maybe he was simply born into that crap religion Plus, there are so many other Catholics who for various reasons are not in line with the dogmas of that Church...
Then leave the Church and don't continue to soil it up. Or become a priest work your way up to Pope call a Vatican Council and try to change what ever laws you don't like. (good luck with that) Get busy praying or get busy going to hell it all up to you. Or just get out.
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Plus, there are so many other Catholics who for various reasons are not in line with the dogmas of that Church...
