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Old 07-05-2011, 04:36 PM
 
Location: London, UK
158 posts, read 134,459 times
Reputation: 56

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I would be refreshing to hear the left actually address those points rather than recite them. But alas, it is too much to hope for.
It's not a question of left vs. right or liberal vs. conservative. It's a matter of who will have the guts to pull the plug on entitlements and wasteful spending before they drive the country bankrupt.

With the amount of debt the USA currently has, a drop in the credit rating is going to massively hurt the future of this country.

The other problem right now is that all spending is viewed as wasteful when there is really good and bad spending. Infrastructure spending for instance is something that is unfairly demonized right now.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:38 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,927,280 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
It's not a question of left vs. right or liberal vs. conservative. It's a matter of who will have the guts to pull the plug on entitlements and wasteful spending before they drive the country bankrupt.

With the amount of debt the USA currently has, a drop in the credit rating is going to massively hurt the future of this country.

The other problem right now is that all spending is viewed as wasteful when there is really good and bad spending. Infrastructure spending for instance is something that is unfairly demonized right now.
Well at least a thoughtful post. That is a fact. There is good and bad spending. Just about all spending is demonized by the right now.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,230,375 times
Reputation: 6242
Believe me, our unfair tax system does a wonderful job equalizing those who pay for advanced education and work insane hours their whole lives, and those who put forth no effort in education or work but continue to make bad financial decisions for their entire irresponsible lives.

Aside for the fact that my spouse and I have NO time away from work, there is no appreciable difference in quality of life between us (working professionals) and our relatives who barely graduated high school and work when they feel like it (which isn't often). This is thanks to them getting paid by the government for having kids they can't afford, while we pay massive taxes of all kinds.

The problem is lumping working professionals with the TRULY rich who have incomes of $1 million or more a year, and who don't punch a time clock. There is a HUGE jump between the earnings of a highly-educated engineer (maybe $150K), for example, and one of the scam jobs like Robber Baron CEO or high finance mogul, that has no relation to actual productivity ($1 million and up).

Yes, the Robber-Baron CEOs have gotten huge rewards--but they also pay minimal taxes. Don't think the salary-slave working 80 hours a week with no pension and paying most of his own health care costs is profiting from the modern economy. We sacrificed our lives to workaholism, and our reward is massive taxes and ZERO quality of life that will end in an early and stress-related disease long before we can save enough to even think about retiring.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,722,751 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
It's not a question of left vs. right or liberal vs. conservative. It's a matter of who will have the guts to pull the plug on entitlements and wasteful spending before they drive the country bankrupt.

With the amount of debt the USA currently has, a drop in the credit rating is going to massively hurt the future of this country.

The other problem right now is that all spending is viewed as wasteful when there is really good and bad spending. Infrastructure spending for instance is something that is unfairly demonized right now.
Unfortunately it is a left /right divide. Paul Ryan produced his road map which was a serious attempt to address spending and it was demagogued by the left. We simply haven't seen any meaningful cost cutting proposals from the left. In fact we have only seen increased spending proposals.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:40 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,992,474 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Of course this is pure, unadulterated silliness. Taxing the wealthy more doesn't increase your wealth, it increases government spending and it's power. Neither is desirable.
Which of course perpetuates poverty even more, lowering the income of those on the bottom even more, increasing the numbers of individuals living off the government, thereby increasing the income disparity even futher.. Its so obvious, but liberals just dont get it.. Odd
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:42 PM
 
45,396 posts, read 26,983,057 times
Reputation: 23754
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Not since before the great depression have we had such inequality in wealth distribution. There is a correlation between the disparity and taxes. The lower the taxes the higher the disparity. The greater the taxes the less the disparity and the larger the middle class. Anyone who tells you that taxes on the rich kills the middle class just needs to look at the charts.

The 30-Year Growth of Income Inequality |
All your article does is throw out a bunch of numbers without explaining anything.

So how does this work? How does income disparity lead to depression?

And on the same thought - does equality of income lead to prosperity for all? If so, what would that income be and how do we get there?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:43 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,927,280 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Believe me, our unfair tax system does a wonderful job equalizing those who pay for advanced education and work insane hours their whole lives, and those who put forth no effort in education or work but continue to make bad financial decisions for their entire irresponsible lives.

Aside for the fact that my spouse and I have NO time away from work, there is no appreciable difference in quality of life between us (working professionals) and our relatives who barely graduated high school and work when they feel like it (which isn't often). This is thanks to them getting paid by the government for having kids they can't afford, while we pay massive taxes of all kinds.

The problem is lumping working professionals with the TRULY rich who have incomes of $1 million or more a year, and who don't punch a time clock. There is a HUGE jump between the earnings of a highly-educated engineer (maybe $150K), for example, and one of the scam jobs like Robber Baron CEO or high finance mogul, that has no relation to actual productivity ($1 million and up).

Yes, the Robber-Baron CEOs have gotten huge rewards--but they also pay minimal taxes. Don't think the salary-slave working 80 hours a week with no pension and paying most of his own health care costs is profiting from the modern economy. We sacrificed our lives to workaholism, and our reward is massive taxes and ZERO quality of life that will end in an early and stress-related disease long before we can save enough to even think about retiring.
Yes I agree. I have put forth the same arguement over and over, but yet I am considered a liberal ________ fill in insult. The fact is that the upper middle class shoulders way too much of the burden. I agree. The extreme wealthy the .1 percent of the top 1% get the least and the culture of do nothing for something is running rampant.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:44 PM
 
8,594 posts, read 9,093,828 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
They are in far less numbers compared to celebrities and athletes who hold huge pay... the old money folks don't hold a candle to the new money folks... by numbers and money... the old money folks are more for story-telling and movie-making....
That is what they want the cattle to think. You are just a tool, manipulated, herded and above all, special to humans only---brainwashed.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: London, UK
158 posts, read 134,459 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Unfortunately it is a left /right divide. Paul Ryan produced his road map which was a serious attempt to address spending and it was demagogued by the left. We simply haven't seen any meaningful cost cutting proposals from the left. In fact we have only seen increased spending proposals.
His attempt was ridiculous though. His forecasts and estimates were totally unrealistic and way too optimistic. This being said, I appreciated his efforts and his attempt (at least) to try and tackle the issue. He is the only one who has come up with something.

It's just sad nobody tried to build upon this effort to try to make something more concrete.

Partisanship is at an all-time high right now and it's clearly not helping this country at all. The issue at hand is similar to the one faced by many countries in Europe; it should not be a left vs. right thing; both ends of the spectrum have good and bad stuff... the problem is nobody is willing to look past the partisan hackery and make some compromises.

The Republicans have valid points about the tax system (and other issues) but so do the Democrats. It is just sad they can't hear each other out. In the meantime, they are still getting paid hefty salaries and benefits while the American people is getting poorer and hopeless by the day.

It sounds extreme but I think there hasn't been a better time to introduce a third party with a fresh view on things.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:04 PM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,791,829 times
Reputation: 10821
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post

Partisanship is at an all-time high right now and it's clearly not helping this country at all. The issue at hand is similar to the one faced by many countries in Europe; it should not be a left vs. right thing; both ends of the spectrum have good and bad stuff... the problem is nobody is willing to look past the partisan hackery and make some compromises.

Basically. I mean we've had periods of high partisanship before but the timing on this round of bickering couldn't be worse. Things need to get done, and FAST, but the public rhetoric has been so strident for so long that we now have a voting populace that has no tolerance for any kind of compromise, at least at the hardcore party level that votes in primaries. People have talked themselves into a corner and there is no way to get back to the middle, it seems.
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