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Old 07-06-2011, 08:12 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,932,453 times
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While noticing a correlation can be significant. I would caution against thinking it is the cause. I certainly think FED monetary policy creating long term perpetual debt and inflation is a bigger issue. Also sending all the jobs over seas. I mean w/ lower wages or no wages certainly taxes would be lower.

We have reports of trillions missing and trillions more that we only recently got a clue where that was going due to FOI. It wasn't going to US tax payers even though they are footing the bill. That doesn't even touch on endless military expenditures on the books, not even talking about off the books.

Taxes generally are more important the more local you are. I also think people should look at other government revenue besides taxes to see what money is coming in. Most likely you won't find it in the budget reports.

Last edited by CDusr; 07-06-2011 at 08:31 PM..
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,990,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
The only flaw is that the system is not designed so that 300m Americans can have $100k/year jobs. You have to get people back to work so you have to give incentives to corporations. Corporations are reluctant to hire because, among other things, of the uncertainty regarding the tax code, benefits (health care, etc.). Unions are just a scapegoat. Germany is heavily unionized and yet is very productive and its manufacturing sector is thriving at the moment.



German Unions have a genuine partnership in the management of German industry and even finance. 30% of the seats on most German corporate boards. Comanies like Krupp-Thyssen, BASF, Siemans, BMW or Deutsch Bank. It would be like the Board of Directors of GE, Ford or even Goldman-Sachs had six or seven seats occupied by the representatives of the AFL-CIO or Teamsters. The Unions get to see the books and understand profit and loss. In exchange for the right to have a major say in determining wages, prices, company policy, R&D, job security etc. German Unions have control over the education and quality of the German workforce through control of Apprentice Programs that train young Germans to be technicians, mechanics or skilled machinists. The fact that Germany can have high wages, generous benefits, job security in the world's most technologically advanced economy is due to Unions . Germany is a team of much like their football teams--- world class and world beaters.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
The fact that Germany can have high wages, generous benefits, job security in the world's most technologically advanced economy is due to Unions .
Um... Germany's not doing so well.
German Economic Hopes Fall
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:37 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
German Unions have a genuine partnership in the management of German industry and even finance. 30% of the seats on most German corporate boards. Comanies like Krupp-Thyssen, BASF, Siemans, BMW or Deutsch Bank. It would be like the Board of Directors of GE, Ford or even Goldman-Sachs had six or seven seats occupied by the representatives of the AFL-CIO or Teamsters. The Unions get to see the books and understand profit and loss. In exchange for the right to have a major say in determining wages, prices, company policy, R&D, job security etc. German Unions have control over the education and quality of the German workforce through control of Apprentice Programs that train young Germans to be technicians, mechanics or skilled machinists. The fact that Germany can have high wages, generous benefits, job security in the world's most technologically advanced economy is due to Unions . Germany is a team of much like their football teams--- world class and world beaters.
Yes we did rebuild them into a pretty good economy. I guess it pays to lose a war. The equivalent of $116 billion over 4 years must have been nice for them! Oh not counting our military protection for another 60+ years.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:43 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
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Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Not since before the great depression have we had such inequality in wealth distribution. There is a correlation between the disparity and taxes. The lower the taxes the higher the disparity. The greater the taxes the less the disparity and the larger the middle class. Anyone who tells you that taxes on the rich kills the middle class just needs to look at the charts.

The 30-Year Growth of Income Inequality |
Just look at where the economy is doing well and recovering . It isn't equal at all. WQe have for deacdes Now been investing in things that do not return more welth.This is exactly what the presdient of frances talked about the other day. Putting welath in and only gettting it consumeed with no return is a path for failure. Too many i the end dependent on too few.ZThe result is greece and now portugal and spin following.When you get to the poit where your borrowing 40 cents o the dollar;paying interest and not egtting anyhting for the investment ;it time to rethink what your doing before your foreclosed.We are nw at abotu 50% on people who do not produse what they consume in even government service. In the end not good for them and ceratin not good for general welfare especailly the future.Wealth redistribution has failed to prodcue arouf the world;even in China but that is changing.We are never goign to be in the position that we were after WWII;with most the world destroyed and bankrupt with us the world manufacturers with no real competition.Alos we will never again produce our energy 100% which drove that economy.Different world how.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:34 PM
 
Location: London, UK
158 posts, read 134,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Yes we did rebuild them into a pretty good economy. I guess it pays to lose a war. The equivalent of $116 billion over 4 years must have been nice for them! Oh not counting our military protection for another 60+ years.
And now they are laughing their asses off because, thanks to PIG (Portugal, Ireland, Greece), the Euro is getting cheaper which helps their exports.

And German companies have never lost their edge. While GE now has to get creative (ie. gamble with its financial arm) to make ends meet (30+% of its profits came from GE Financial), Siemens focuses on its core competencies (industry, manufacture, technology).
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:59 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
And now they are laughing their asses off because, thanks to PIG (Portugal, Ireland, Greece), the Euro is getting cheaper which helps their exports.

And German companies have never lost their edge. While GE now has to get creative (ie. gamble with its financial arm) to make ends meet (30+% of its profits came from GE Financial), Siemens focuses on its core competencies (industry, manufacture, technology).
Demographically they are screwed though.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:02 PM
 
Location: London, UK
158 posts, read 134,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Demographically they are screwed though.
The USA is just a couple generations behind though. (but I agree with you)
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:18 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,061 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The more people make, the more taxes they pay. The more rich people there are - there is a larger pool with which to draw resources.

As long as these inept policies keep people away from work, less taxes will be paid.

The goal is to make as many people wealthy as you can through their own work and investment in order to increase the tax base and the amount that can be collected.

Oh - and CUT SPENDING
Wealthy people are not hiring. Productivity has skyrocketed leading to more wealth for the wealthy and either stagnation or a loss of jobs for the middle. Trickle down doesn't work.

Tax cuts are not incentivizing hiring. What's occurring is that services that the middle and lower classes use are being cut in order to fund the tax cuts for the rich. A lower standard of living is the end result.

In order to ensure more people entering in the middle class and future generations having the ability to stay middle class, we need to have programs in which they are not too highly indebted. Tax revenue can help.

I agree we should cut spending, but I would go after defense first, then social services.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:21 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,836,061 times
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Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
No matter how much money the government "invests" in higher education, the cost keeps rising way faster than inflation.

Please, show me a chart that proves different.

Your logic is flawed.
Is that why when the UC system received less state and federal funds since the 1990s tuition skyrocketed as compared to when it was heavily subsidized since its founding to about the 1980s (tuition matched inflation at that point). Huh...
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