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Old 07-07-2011, 12:42 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,119,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
So is it now your proposition that the science behind climate change isn't hard? Am I supposed to think that climatologist utilize ouija boards and divining sticks instead of computer modeling, geology, isotope hydrology, and yes physics?

Well, if you ask some physicists, they will tell you all other disciplines are “soft”. However to be clear, when I say “soft” I mean more subjective.

Physics is certainly the hardest of hard science and is inseparable from the science of climatology. Only idiots argue that carbon dioxide does not hold heat in certain wavelengths.

But Dendrochronology? Anyone arguing dencrochronology used in paleoclimatology is without subjectivity, is being as asinine as person arguing that carbon dioxide doesn’t hold heat in certain wavelengths.

While much of climatology is “hard” science based solidly on the scientific method and relies on solid mathematics and physics, there is a good deal of subjectivity that brings a “softer shade” to the field.

AND I would further argue that modeling as done in climatology is softer than psychology. (yes that was a dirty low down cheap shot at the modelers.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post

Here's the deal, while I am no fan of Noam Chomsky, never have been and never will be, it would be the height of intellectual dishonesty for anyone to proffer that Chomsky, with over 100 published titles on politics alone, lacks serious credibility as a political philosopher. Such a proffer would be as ridiculous are arguing that William F. Buckley the founding intellectual of modern American conservatism was vastly unqualified to do so because he only possessed a mere bachelor's degree from Yale.

Frankly, it is a topic unworthy of consideration.
Again, my personal view of Chomsky isnt my issue. I generally do not appeal to silly notions of how and in what one is educated to determine the value of what the are saying.... I dont have to live and die by that rule.

however, from the left side of the equasion it certainly is considered and used as a disqualifier when conservatives are speaking on any subject...
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:50 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,119,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
Your premise is faulty, since it requires you to make a premature judgment w/r/t why people listen to Chomsky. Plenty of people find him credible because he says the things in a way which suggests that he has thoroughly investigated the subject he is discussing, otherwise he would be far less reputable in academic circles than he is. He's not someone to take without a grain of salt, but he isn't someone who popular simply because he's saying the fashionable thing.

Also, this is not a very philosophical argument, and indeed you have reached your conclusion before you made your first post.
If we trained a chicken to say it isn’t right for a temple to have billions of dollars in treasure in its basement while some people living around the temple are starving, liberals everywhere would incuriously nod their head in agreement and point out the apparent wisdom of the chicken.

The same people will scoff and point to the lack of education when some “Joe the Plumber” speaks about the inequity in taking wealth from those who have produced it to give to those who have not.

Now if I came to this conclusion before I began the discussion, then it would only be because experience has proven the conclusion time and time again.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:15 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,107,223 times
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
however, from the left side of the equasion it certainly is considered and used as a disqualifier when conservatives are speaking on any subject...
To whom the **** are you referring, Beck, Palin, Bachmann, Angle, O'Donnell? The topic at hand concerns a specific individual, Chomsky, not some amorphous and still unnamed "conservative" who has allegedly been dismissed by "liberals" due to a lack of some unspecified credential.

And while we are on the subject of hypocrisy, I fail to note in your comments the propensity of your right wing cohorts who dismiss out of hand any number of distinguished scholars having not read a sentence that they have ever written much less understanding its contents? Of these I can point to copious examples on these boards.

In short, next time before embarking on this line of argument, I suggest that you purchase a mirror, because there is more than enough hypocrisy to go around.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:41 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,119,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
To whom the **** are you referring, Beck, Palin, Bachmann, Angle, O'Donnell? The topic at hand concerns a specific individual, Chomsky, not some amorphous and still unnamed "conservative" who has allegedly been dismissed by "liberals" due to a lack of some unspecified credential.

And while we are on the subject of hypocrisy, I fail to note in your comments the propensity of your right wing cohorts who dismiss out of hand any number of distinguished scholars having not read a sentence that they have ever written much less understanding its contents? Of these I can point to copious examples on these boards.

In short, next time before embarking on this line of argument, I suggest that you purchase a mirror, because there is more than enough hypocrisy to go around.

LOL! well... do ya feel better ovacatto?


the list goes on and on and on.... considering the reps I have gotten from this thread some folks actually agree with me.

As for dismissing any number of distinguished scholars, well as a general rule, I listen to them. When they say things that I don’t agree with, I honestly don’t care how many letters they have after their name.

I care what they say. I care what they mean. I do not believe that formal education is a panacea. It is good. It is great. It will be demanded by me of my children... But it does not fix all. and as I have noted often, our country has been led by the Ivy League for the last 40 years. it hasn’t really worked out very well...
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:43 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,107,223 times
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
the list goes on and on and on.... considering the reps I have gotten from this thread some folks actually agree with me.
Oh, for god's sake only a vanity filled and deluded fool would use the accumulation of City-Data rep points as some measure of sagacity. Methinks you are better than that.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:30 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,635,238 times
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I'm a linguistics major and we hear about Noam Chomsky all the time.

(By the way my user name is a Noam Chomsky reference as well.)
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:36 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,312,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
He's studies linguistics, but he only talks about economics, politics, and science, which he has no credentials to show that he has credibility in what he gets paid to talk about.
You mean like Beck...wait, Beck is not an expert in anything....hmmm.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:50 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,635,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
I think you don't understand the importance of this field...especially where computer languages are involved.

Chomsky may not have done much in the past 10 years or so (distracted by politics?), but his contributions to computer science are significant.
And his contributions to all of linguistics are worth noting as well. I have yet to take a linguistics class where his name isn't mentioned at least once.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,910,960 times
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Chomsky's theories and writings on deep grammar are world-class. His credentials as a linguist are bona fide. He made significant contributions to the field in his research and many publications, and benefitted and inspired a whole generation of students of linguists.

To my mind, it is truly sad that such a brilliant man and outstanding mind has spent itself, for the couple of decades at least, attacking the policies of the nation which provided Dr. Chomsky with so many accolades and virtually unfettered opportunity to do more in his field of expertise.

This is particularly ironic when one considers that many of the nations (and systems) to which Chomsky unflatteringly compares the United States would have severely curtailed his efforts to engage in the kind of criticism which he directs toward his native country, its policies, and its leaders.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 5,079,212 times
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Noam Chomsky is rather like another icon of 20th century science Albert Einstein who was not comfortable with what modern physics with its increasing use of probablity and statistics over closed form equations or descriptive geometry. Both Noam and Albert were very productive when young but Albert spent the last 40 years of his scientific career trying to find a theory of everything to no avail. God's own simple master equation.
Einstein once dismissed quantum mechanics by saying "God does not play dice!"

As for being an ideologue he got some good living and not living company like Carl Sagan and Steven J. Gould..
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