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Old 07-08-2011, 03:36 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,464,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
From Wiki:
Sorry but nothing in your link disputed what I said..

Obama signs bills for record Pentagon, Homeland Security spending
Obama signs earmark-laden budget bill - UPI.com

The PRESIDENT signs budgets, you arent going to stand here and blame Bush for bills signed by Obama.. at least not without looking foolish
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:38 PM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,722,828 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Sorry but nothing in your link disputed what I said..

Obama signs bills for record Pentagon, Homeland Security spending
Obama signs earmark-laden budget bill - UPI.com

The PRESIDENT signs budgets, you arent going to stand here and blame Bush for bills signed by Obama.. at least not without looking foolish
Well said.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:16 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,424,610 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
Just set it up so that it doesn't pay to do so.
That's part of the scenario that could play out...

Quote:
A World Without the West.
In this world, described in a fictional letter from a future head of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), new powers supplant the West as the leaders on the world stage. The US feels overburdened and withdraws from Central Asia, including Afghanistan; Europe will not step up to the plate and take the lead. Russia, China, and others are forced to deal with the potential for spillover and instability in Central Asia. The SCO gains ascendance while NATO’s status declines. Anti-China antagonism in the US and Europe reaches a crescendo; protectionist trade barriers are put in place. Russia and China enter a marriage of convenience; other countries—India and Iran—rally around them. The lack of any stable bloc—whether in the West or the non-Western world—adds to growing instability and disorder, potentially threatening globalization.
http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Global_Trends_Final_Report.pdf (broken link)
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,620 posts, read 16,419,369 times
Reputation: 6347
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
For the sake of argument, lets assume that tax increases hurt the economy and tax cuts hurt the economy.

What are some of the things that can be done to create jobs that does not involve reduction on spending or increases on taxes?

A large problem is the trade deficit.

Below are graphs that show the trade decit and trading partners, as you can see, the wheels started falling of about the same time that our deficit started getting larger. There is certainly a correlation.

The US Trade Deficit

How do we fix the trade deficit? I have not heard either side addressing this problem.
GDP= Private Consumption+Investment+Government Expenditure+ (Exports-Imports)

As you point out our trade deficit is a problem. In order to just maintain current GDP levels we need more of the other three variables as a result of our trade imbalances.

Government expenditure is constrained now because of the deficit and the wrangling in Congress. So that's out. This leaves us with Private Consumption and Investment. Previously we were told to take equity out of homes and go to the mall. That worked for about 6 years until the bottom fell out. Now with consumers hammered by plunging home values and job losses consumption is taking a hit.

The only remaining viable option is investment preferably investments that address closing the trade gap. This is why taxing the rich while it sounds good and seems reasonable is not advisable now since they are the only ones who can provide the investment capital needed to right this ship.

I would administer an amnesty for repatriated international capital and tax credits for businesses that are export heavy. I would also refocus government spending from world police activities and into investments that help America compete internationally.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:37 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 13,134,672 times
Reputation: 4453
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Kid stuff? The last year Bush was in office, the deficit was $1.42 trillion dollars. In total, Bush's contribution to the debt was between $5 trillion and $6 trillion. That's not kid stuff.

While Republicans did pass Medicare Part D, that program helped corporations as much as seniors. That's the law that prohibits Medicare from negotiating drug costs.

But your main argument is that Republicans don't want to undo New Deal programs. That's just not true. Let's review history:
Social Security: Passed the House 372-33, with 81 Republicans voting in support. The bill was passed in the Senate 77-6, with 16 Republicans in support.

Medicare: Passed the House 307-116, with 70 Republicans voting in support. The bill was passed in the Senate 70-24, with 13 Republicans in support.

The Republican-controlled Congress shutdown the government in 1995 over funding for Medicare, education, the environment and public health.

After his 2004 re-election, President George W. Bush called for a transition to a privatized system.

The Ryan Plan calls for cutting upper-income tax-rates from 35% to 25% and then replaces Medicare with a voucher system that is too stingy to pay for health insurance.

There is ample historical evidence of Republican hostility to New Deal and Great Society programs.


1) What Obama did was capitulate to Republicans. If you can remember back to December, Obama wanted to extend unemployment benefits and Republicans held that measure hostage, which in the past has always passed with bipartisan support, in order to get the upper-income tax-cuts extended.

2) We're not talking about some obscure program, I'm talking about major popular programs like Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. There really isn't any sizable wasteful programs that would make meaningful reductions to the deficit.

3) Federal workers have a retirement plan similar to other plans. One must work for a number of years to be vested and also attain a certain age. I don't know the details but I'm sure a worker who started at 20 can't retire when they are 40. Usually, the minimum retirement age is 62. I don't see an issue with a 62 year old retiree accepting another job. People in the private sector do that all the time.

I have a colleague who formerly worked for IBM and receives a pension (he's over 65) and still is allowed to work and collect.

I don't think we should require people who can contribute positively to the economy, to be idle.
there is a difference in the public and private sector retirement age eligibility.

Many state and local government workers can retire and collect a pension after a few decades of service, regardless of how old they are. Some public sector employees who started working in their 20s and never changed employers are eligible to collect pension benefits for life beginning in their 50s.

The average global retirement age at which private-sector workers with a full career can first draw retirement benefits from the main national pension scheme without any reductions was 63 in 2010, according to an Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development analysis of retirement ages in 30 countries with national retirement plans. The lowest 2010 retirement age was 57 in Greece and the highest was 67 in Iceland and Norway. The United States has the third oldest retirement age, 66. Many European countries and the United States already have laws in place that will increase the retirement age in future years. (i want people to note that it is no accident that greece is having all its troubles and has the lowest retirement age of those countries)


Workers in the U.S. can begin to collect Social Security checks at age 62. But workers who sign up at this age receive smaller payouts than those who wait until their full retirement age to sign up. The full retirement age used to be 65 for people born in 1937 or earlier. But the age was increased to 66 for most baby boomers and will climb to 67 for everyone born in 1960 or later. Employees can further increase the Social Security payout they will receive by waiting until age 70 to sign up.

you can see that this is unfair to the private sector to have to work longer to support the public sector.

something needs to change.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,546 posts, read 16,472,205 times
Reputation: 8087
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
What are some of the things that can be done to create jobs that does not involve reduction on spending or increases on taxes?
.

First, you get the government out of the way. No stimulus programs and no bail outs for any companies or people.

The economy will rebound after a period of correction.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:19 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,302,569 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
First, you get the government out of the way. No stimulus programs and no bail outs for any companies or people.

The economy will rebound after a period of correction.
So basically you propose we do nothing to grow the economy?
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:26 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,424,610 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
So basically you propose we do nothing to grow the economy?
Well, doing something constitutes taking over more countries and continued wars...

Five out of the most expensive programs in the proposed budget are welfare programs. One is the interest on the debt and the other two are defense related.

The welfare state is in full effect because of the defense department.

Think of it on a more simplistic level. Think about it as a petri dish with a few different bacterium. They're going to try to propagate themselves and protect themselves.

Or think of it like this. If you want your welfare state and all the free stuff you can find you're going to need to continue to use up resources at the same rate or at a higher rate than you already do.

As a form of life you require resources from a host planet to live. The more of you that there are the less the host has.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
448 posts, read 467,129 times
Reputation: 163
Legalize marijuana.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Here
10,864 posts, read 11,930,859 times
Reputation: 5985
Ship out the worthless folks who live off the backs of the rest of us. I'd say that equates to about 40% of the population. Drop the dead weight and things just might start looking up.
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