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Old 07-08-2011, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,891 posts, read 16,319,472 times
Reputation: 3123

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sfemi View Post
Very well thought out and researched posting, thanks....for those of us who are stuck with just average intelligence and education and just count on our interest and good common sense to respond. Love you smarti-pants.

Well then you'll love my response................
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:04 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,444,585 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
GENEVA — The world needs $1.9 trillion in green technology investments a year, with over half of that sum necessary for developing countries," the UN said Tuesday.
"Over the next 40 years, $1.9 trillion (1.31 trillion euros) per year will be needed for incremental investments in green technologies," the UN Economic and Social Affairs body said in its annual survey.
"At least one-half, or $1.1 trillion per year, of the required investments will need to be made in developing countries to meet their rapidly increasing food and energy demands through the application of green technologies," it added.
AFP: World needs $1.9tn a year for green technology: UN
Quote:
Some of our preliminary assessments are highlighted below:
  • The whole international system—as constructed following WWII—will be revolutionized. Not only will new players—Brazil, Russia, India and China— have a seat at the international high table, they will bring new stakes and rules of the game.
  • The unprecedented transfer of wealth roughly from West to East now under way will continue for the foreseeable future.
  • [Unprecedented economic growth, coupled with 1.5 billion more people, will put pressure on resources—particularly energy, food, and water—raising the specter of scarcities emerging as demand outstrips supply.
  • The potential for conflict will increase owing partly to political turbulence in parts of the greater Middle East.
NIC 2025 Project (http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_2025_project.html - broken link)

It's not even happening fast enough for them.

Quote:
The number of unemployed persons (14.1 million) and the unemployment rate (9.2 percent) were essentially unchanged over the month. Since March, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 545,000, and the unemployment rate has risen by 0.4 percentage point. The labor force, at 153.4 million, changed little over the month. (See table A-1.)
Employment Situation Summary

And your plans are to raise taxes and keep spending. That's going to be fuel for the fire.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:28 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,444,585 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Taxing high income earners, who have mainly saved under the previous Admin., in a time when borrowing is at historical lows, doesn't hurt the economy (e.g. drop GDP) either at all or not as much as cutting spending.
It won't matter. You'll be aiming exactly for the only people left in America with money who aren't strapped to the hilt. Fine, tax them at 100%. You'd effectively be giving them an eviction notice telling them to get the heck outa dodge while you still can. These people aren't stupid, they make their money by knowing how to use it to make more. If that means they move their operation because you just raised their taxes even more, then that's what they'll do. And it will rest solely on your shoulders.

Or go the opposite was and reduce their taxes even more. They're still not going to invest in America because the clearly obvious best investment is in the East.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Trying to balance the budget in times of economic distress is a recipe for deepening the slump. Spending cuts right now wouldn't put the economy on sounder footing. It would reduce growth and raise unemployment.
Keep blowing money. I'm sure all the foreign investors in America won't mind at all when the credit rating is downgraded.

Quote:
The credit rating agency Standard & Poor's lowered the outlook on the United States' credit to "negative," leading to a big decline in stock prices. The report released Monday morning says that the United States has a large debt and deficit compared with other highly rated nations, and unlike with those other nations "the path to addressing [the debt and deficit] is not clear to us."
The United States kept its AAA rating, but the downgrade to the outlook means that S&P analysts believe there is at least a 33% chance that the agency will have to lower its credit rating on U.S. debt in the next two years.
Stocks fall as U.S. credit rating outlook lowered to 'negative' by Standard & Poor's [Updated] - latimes.com

Now the other side...

Quote:
Moody's Investors Service warned Thursday that it could downgrade the U.S. government's AAA credit rating if there is no progress in the next six weeks on a deal to raise the nation's $14.29-trillion debt ceiling. The credit rating agency said it saw a "very small but rising risk of a short-lived default" by the government on its obligations to holders of Treasury bonds and other debt.
Moody's warns of U.S. credit rating downgrade if no debt ceiling deal comes soon - latimes.com
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,740,314 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
For the sake of argument, lets assume that tax increases hurt the economy and tax cuts hurt the economy.

What are some of the things that can be done to create jobs that does not involve reduction on spending or increases on taxes?

A large problem is the trade deficit.

Below are graphs that show the trade decit and trading partners, as you can see, the wheels started falling of about the same time that our deficit started getting larger. There is certainly a correlation.

The US Trade Deficit

How do we fix the trade deficit? I have not heard either side addressing this problem.
It is much more than trade. It does not benefit the U.S. enough if an item is made overseas by a U.S. company but then sold by that company overseas.

It benefits much more the U.S. if that product is made here and then sold overseas. The investment in creating a factory is considerable due to all of the backward and foward linkages which are involved and persons employed as a result.

Multi-prong approach:

#1 Increasing employment of existing domestic populace creates a need for additional products and services which then leads to additional hiring to meet new demand. It is a chain. (Note this is entirely different than increasing employment of existing foreign manufacturing country populace.)

#2 Strengthening confidence in U.S. dollar for investors-both foreign and domestic to be part of the investment in businesses so that #1 occurs. This is by being fiscally responsible in the domestic arena and behaving mature in the international arena and by appearing as a united country in the eyes of foreign observers.

#3 Grow exports by strengthening U.S. export development aspects of our foreign aid and consular staff to grow #2. Foreign aid should be given with the understanding that purchases are to be made with approved U.S. companies(those whose goods are made in the U.S.A.)

#4 Decide which part of manufacturing needs to be in the United States and focus on returning those industries home via preferential subsidies or credits. (Example Corvette/Camaro V8 is built in Canada and Ford 5.0L V8 is built in Mexico and certain transmissions for both Ford and GM are built in Mexico and China. Should these come home and the coat hanger and paperclip factories remain in Mexico or India or China.) This will allow trade to continue with foreign countries without a resulting trade war/tariff. No countries war with trade partners. Overall, this leads to #1.

#5 End poorly considered gov't practices at home which make business/manufacturing a poor investment. This leads to #1

#6 Grow domestic production by imposing a fair practices levy on corporations who practice offshore manufacturing. Offshore sourcing is understandable but not manufacturing.

#7 Instill work ethic in the domestic populace by reducing social net to only those who are disabled by age, mental or physical conditions.

#8 Encourage creation of professional trade education so there is a dual road approach to professions.

#9 Provide credits/bonuses to those who successfully and meritoriously complete their education in scarce career fields.-certain levels of engineering, physics, etc.

#10 Provide credits or benefits to foreign companies who wish to invest in manufacturing in the U.S. rather than merely exporting into the U.S.

#11 Heavily subsidize Green research with metrics for continued funding. This is essentially the one industry we can have an advantage over other nations.

#12 Gradually reduce to elimination the extended unemployment benefits. This will force people to work where the offered wage is less than unemployment.

#13 Gov't should invest in sound domestic projects which result in the largest employable labor pool.

Last edited by Felix C; 07-08-2011 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,717 posts, read 11,564,050 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
You're kidding right? Compared to Obama it sure is kid stuff.


Deficit and Spending Increase Under Obama - WSJ.com

"As for the deficit, CBO shows that over the first three years of the Obama Presidency, 2009-2011, the federal government will borrow an estimated $3.7 trillion. That is more than the entire accumulated national debt for the first 225 years of U.S. history"
What you neglect is that Obama had no input in the 2009 budget. Yet, you assign him blame for the $1.3 trillion deficit left him by Bush. That's remarkably unfair.

On Jan. 7, 2009, two weeks before Obama took office, the Congressional Budget Office reported that the deficit for fiscal year 2009 was projected to be $1.2 trillion. You can't possibly blame Obama for that -- he wasn't even President then.

It also isn't "more than the entire accumulated national debt for the first 225 years of U.S. history."
Eric cantor made the same false claim and you are parroting that false claim. PolitiFacts has it here:

Eric Cantor tells Jon Stewart that U.S. spent more in past two years than previous 200.


Quote:
We first looked at federal spending for 2009 and the estimate of spending for 2010. Combined, federal spending in those two years amounted to a little more than $7.2 trillion.

We didn't have to add up all 200 years -- you only have to add together 2006, 2007 and 2008 to reach $8.3 trillion, which exceeds the $7.2 trillion of 2009 and 2010. So by that measure, Cantor is wrong.

Want to use the data for 2010 and 2011 instead, under the assumption President Barack Obama was completely in charge for those budget years? Fine. Using those two years ups the total to a bit under $7.6 trillion. The three years before that by themselves total $9.2 trillion. So Cantor is wrong that way, too.

What about using projected spending based on the course set by the Obama Administration and the Democratic Congress? Not even bending the rules to include the period 2009 to 2015 would do it. Outlays for the 2009-2015 period increases the cumulative amount of federal spending to about $27.3 trillion. Exceeding that amount only requires combining the federal spending from 1995 to 2008 -- a period of 14 years, not 200. So he's still wrong.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:36 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 1,764,505 times
Reputation: 901
Default actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Well then you'll love my response................
Although I do not always agree with your responses, I do enjoy reading them, but this one seems lacking your usual verve............
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:44 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 1,764,505 times
Reputation: 901
Default Another smarti on the thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
It is much more than trade. It does not benefit the U.S. enough if an item is made overseas by a U.S. company but then sold by that company overseas.

It benefits much more the U.S. if that product is made here and then sold overseas. The investment in creating a factory is considerable due to all of the backward and foward linkages which are involved and persons employed as a result.

Multi-prong approach:

#1 Increasing employment of existing domestic populace creates a need for additional products and services which then leads to additional hiring to meet new demand. It is a chain. (Note this is entirely different than increasing employment of existing foreign manufacturing country populace.)

#2 Strengthening confidence in U.S. dollar for investors-both foreign and domestic to be part of the investment in businesses so that #1 occurs. This is by being fiscally responsible in the domestic arena and behaving mature in the international arena and by appearing as a united country in the eyes of foreign observers.

#3 Grow exports by strengthening U.S. export development aspects of our foreign aid and consular staff to grow #2. Foreign aid should be given with the understanding that purchases are to be made with aprpoved U.S. companies(those whose goods are made in the U.S.A.)

#4 Decide which part of manufacturing needs to be in the United States and focus on returning those industries home via preferential subsidies or credits. (Example Corvette/Camaro V8 is built in Windsor,Canada and Ford 5.0L V8 is built in Mexico and certain transmissions for both Ford and GM are built in Mexico and China. Should these come home and the coat hanger and paperclip factories remain in Mexico or India or China.) This will allow trade to continue with foreign countries without a resulting trade war/tariff. No countries war with trade partners. Overall, this leads to #1.

#5 End poorly considered gov't practices at home which make business/manufacturing a poor investment. This leads to #1

#6 Grow domestic production by imposing a fair practices levy on corporations who practice offshore manufacturing. Offshore sourcing is undestandable but not manufacturing.

#7 Instill work ethic in the domestic populace by reducing social net to only those who are disabled by age, mental or physical conditions.

#8 Encourage creation of professional trade education so there is a dual road approach to professions.

#9 Provide credits/bonuses to those who successfully and meritiously complete their education in scarce career fields.-certain levels of engineering, physics, etc.

#10 Provide credits or benefits to foreign companies who wish to invest in manufacturing in the U.S. rather than merely exporting into the U.S.

#11 Heavily subsidize Green research with metrics for continued funding. This is essentially the one industry we can have an advantage over other nations.

#12 Gradually reduce to elimination the extended unemployment benefits. This will force people to work where the offered wage is less than unemployment.

#13 Gov't should invest in sound domestic projects which result in the largest employable labor pool.
Lots of great points, things the average person (of which I am one) doesn't really think about...beyond...quit shipping our jobs overseas, that's when this whole problem started. Well, actually I had thought of at least 3 of them....but this is great, thanks for the additional info, it was well thought out.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:08 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,444,585 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
It is much more than trade. It does not benefit the U.S. enough if an item is made overseas by a U.S. company but then sold by that company overseas.

It benefits much more the U.S. if that product is made here and then sold overseas. The investment in creating a factory is considerable due to all of the backward and foward linkages which are involved and persons employed as a result.

Multi-prong approach:

#1 Increasing employment of existing domestic populace creates a need for additional products and services which then leads to additional hiring to meet new demand. It is a chain. (Note this is entirely different than increasing employment of existing foreign manufacturing country populace.)

#2 Strengthening confidence in U.S. dollar for investors-both foreign and domestic to be part of the investment in businesses so that #1 occurs. This is by being fiscally responsible in the domestic arena and behaving mature in the international arena and by appearing as a united country in the eyes of foreign observers.

#3 Grow exports by strengthening U.S. export development aspects of our foreign aid and consular staff to grow #2. Foreign aid should be given with the understanding that purchases are to be made with aprpoved U.S. companies(those whose goods are made in the U.S.A.)

#4 Decide which part of manufacturing needs to be in the United States and focus on returning those industries home via preferential subsidies or credits. (Example Corvette/Camaro V8 is built in Canada and Ford 5.0L V8 is built in Mexico and certain transmissions for both Ford and GM are built in Mexico and China. Should these come home and the coat hanger and paperclip factories remain in Mexico or India or China.) This will allow trade to continue with foreign countries without a resulting trade war/tariff. No countries war with trade partners. Overall, this leads to #1.

#5 End poorly considered gov't practices at home which make business/manufacturing a poor investment. This leads to #1

#6 Grow domestic production by imposing a fair practices levy on corporations who practice offshore manufacturing. Offshore sourcing is understandable but not manufacturing.

#7 Instill work ethic in the domestic populace by reducing social net to only those who are disabled by age, mental or physical conditions.

#8 Encourage creation of professional trade education so there is a dual road approach to professions.

#9 Provide credits/bonuses to those who successfully and meritiously complete their education in scarce career fields.-certain levels of engineering, physics, etc.

#10 Provide credits or benefits to foreign companies who wish to invest in manufacturing in the U.S. rather than merely exporting into the U.S.

#11 Heavily subsidize Green research with metrics for continued funding. This is essentially the one industry we can have an advantage over other nations.

#12 Gradually reduce to elimination the extended unemployment benefits. This will force people to work where the offered wage is less than unemployment.

#13 Gov't should invest in sound domestic projects which result in the largest employable labor pool.
And none of that will happen in this political climate. We will literally need a purely altruistic dictator to achieve that and it's very possible Americans would freak out with that person as president and have him impeached and decapitated.

Short from that, we look like a drug-addicted whack-job whose house of cards is tumbling in around them.

The maxed out credit cards.

The late rent/house payments.

Cars on E.

House is crumbling.

Dog food is gone.

The pantry is empty.

The refrigerator only has beer (but at least it has an American flag on it even though it's owned by a company from overseas).

The T.V. has a line running through it but at least it's 96".

Tires are bald.

We're 3 months late on the power, water, cell phone, Direct TV, PlayStation account, insurance payments, etc.

We just found out we're not getting a raise this year and the interest rates on all of the credit cards (that are maxed out) are about to rise and bounce off the limit of the credit cards adding late fees and over the limit fees and you suck fees.

Meanwhile the dog is being petted by your neighbor and the wife left for a Central Eurasian.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:12 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 1,764,505 times
Reputation: 901
Default Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What you neglect is that Obama had no input in the 2009 budget. Yet, you assign him blame for the $1.3 trillion deficit left him by Bush. That's remarkably unfair.

On Jan. 7, 2009, two weeks before Obama took office, the Congressional Budget Office reported that the deficit for fiscal year 2009 was projected to be $1.2 trillion. You can't possibly blame Obama for that -- he wasn't even President then.

It also isn't "more than the entire accumulated national debt for the first 225 years of U.S. history."
Eric cantor made the same false claim and you are parroting that false claim. PolitiFacts has it here:

Eric Cantor tells Jon Stewart that U.S. spent more in past two years than previous 200.
That whole thread is way over my pay grade....but I believe MTAtech gets an eeeeeehaaaa on that one!
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:19 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 1,764,505 times
Reputation: 901
Default I must say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
And none of that will happen in this political climate. We will literally need a purely altruistic dictator to achieve that and it's very possible Americans would freak out with that person as president and have him impeached and decapitated.

Short from that, we look like a drug-addicted whack-job whose house of cards is tumbling in around them.

The maxed out credit cards.

The late rent/house payments.

Cars on E.

House is crumbling.

Dog food is gone.

The pantry is empty.

The refrigerator only has beer (but at least it has an American flag on it even though it's owned by a company from overseas).

The T.V. has a line running through it but at least it's 96".

Tires are bald.

We're 3 months late on the power, water, cell phone, Direct TV, PlayStation account, insurance payments, etc.

We just found out we're not getting a raise this year and the interest rates on all of the credit cards (that are maxed out) are about to rise and bounce off the limit of the credit cards adding late fees and over the limit fees and you suck fees.

Meanwhile the dog is being petted by your neighbor and the wife left for a Central Eurasian.
You guys (and gals?) on this thread are a riot. So intelligent and witty and I'm throughly enjoying reading it! Keep it up, I'm learning alot!
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