Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:32 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
Reputation: 4799

Advertisements

Quote:
The whole international system—as constructed following WWII—will be revolutionized. Not only will new players—Brazil, Russia, India and China— have a seat at the international high table, they will bring new stakes and rules of the game.
The unprecedented transfer of wealth roughly from West to East now under way will continue for the foreseeable future.
Unprecedented economic growth, coupled with 1.5 billion more people, will put pressure on resources—particularly energy, food, and water—raising the specter of scarcities emerging as demand outstrips supply.
The potential for conflict will increase owing partly to political turbulence in parts of the greater Middle East.
As with the earlier NIC efforts—such as Mapping The Global Future 2020—the project's primary goal is to provide US policymakers with a view of how world developments could evolve, identifying opportunities and potentially negative developments that might warrant policy action. We also hope this paper stimulates a broader discussion of value to educational and policy institutions at home and abroad.
NIC 2025 Project (http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_2025_project.html - broken link)

You're not going to be able to grow anything for a very long time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,941,962 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Well clearly that's not true $700 billion in stimulus later.
First, we covered this meme that Keynesian economics didn't work in the 1930s here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/19118368-post10.html We know that the revisionists are busy trying to discredit the policies that reversed the depression but the fact that FDR was elected four times in landslide elections should give an indication that the people living during that time thought FDR's policies were working.

Second, the $700 stimulus wasn't all stimulus. The GOP extracted 40% tax-cuts that did virtually nothing to bolster demand. Thus, a several hundred billion dollar stimulus for an economy that was down trillions in demand -- coupled with states cutting spending and further reducing demand, wasn't given much hope at the beginning with serious economists. In fact, the small size of the stimulus was predicted to provide ammunition to the GOP in their claims that it failed. Yet, it did have positive effects -- just not the optimistic amount that we wanted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:35 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The first thing you do is not frame the discussion as the economy is the trade deficit or budget deficit. What you do is have expansionary polices, instead of talking about cutting government spending we should be talking about another stimulus.
There is a limit at which the rest of the world doesn't care to fund out debt. Unless Obama is a genius, which I doubt, watching us monetize our debt we owe to them isn't going to go over too well. They're already enjoying watching the toxic political climate as the ants scurry...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,745,357 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
First, we covered this meme that Keynesian economics didn't work in the 1930s here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/19118368-post10.html We know that the revisionists are busy trying to discredit the policies that reversed the depression but the fact that FDR was elected four times in landslide elections should give an indication that the people living during that time thought FDR's policies were working.

Second, the $700 stimulus wasn't all stimulus. The GOP extracted 40% tax-cuts that did virtually nothing to bolster demand. Thus, a several hundred billion dollar stimulus for an economy that was down trillions in demand -- coupled with states cutting spending and further reducing demand, wasn't given much hope at the beginning with serious economists. In fact, the small size of the stimulus was predicted to provide ammunition to the GOP in their claims that it failed. Yet, it did have positive effects -- just not the optimistic amount that we wanted.
There is ample evidence that FDR's actions pronged the depression.

By the WH's own estimates we spent over 200k per job created by the stimulus. Not a very compelling argument for Kensyian stimulus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,941,962 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
There is a limit at which the rest of the world doesn't care to fund out debt. Unless Obama is a genius, which I doubt, watching us monetize our debt we owe to them isn't going to go over too well. They're already enjoying watching the toxic political climate as the ants scurry...
There are limits to everything but we're not close to that limit as evidenced by the rest of the world buying our bonds yielding low rates -- which is why raising the debt limit is important.

What isn't important is dealing with deficits and debt now, when unemployment should be the full focus. We will need to deal with deficits and debt when unemployment is closer to full employment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:52 PM
 
278 posts, read 621,802 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
For the sake of argument, lets assume that tax increases hurt the economy and tax cuts hurt the economy.

What are some of the things that can be done to create jobs that does not involve reduction on spending or increases on taxes?

A large problem is the trade deficit.

Below are graphs that show the trade decit and trading partners, as you can see, the wheels started falling of about the same time that our deficit started getting larger. There is certainly a correlation.

The US Trade Deficit

How do we fix the trade deficit? I have not heard either side addressing this problem.
The U.S. has a trade deficit due to its oil dependency. The U.S built its cities for cars and not for people. A trade deficit will always exist because the U.S. Consumes 25 percent of the oil that is produced worldwide on a daily basis.

If the U.S. Had walkable/compact european style cities, the U.S. Would have a gigantic trade surplus and the average Joe would have a lot more disposable income.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,208,437 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
For the sake of argument, lets assume that tax increases hurt the economy and tax cuts hurt the economy.

What are some of the things that can be done to create jobs that does not involve reduction on spending or increases on taxes?

A large problem is the trade deficit.

Below are graphs that show the trade decit and trading partners, as you can see, the wheels started falling of about the same time that our deficit started getting larger. There is certainly a correlation.

The US Trade Deficit

How do we fix the trade deficit? I have not heard either side addressing this problem.
Let it reset naturally, let debt evaporate, don't bailout banks, don't bailout home owners, let the deleveraging forces get over with fast.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,941,962 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
There is ample evidence that FDR's actions pronged the depression.

By the WH's own estimates we spent over 200k per job created by the stimulus. Not a very compelling argument for Kensyian stimulus.
That claim comes from the Weekly Standard taking the high-end full cost, including tax-cuts and dividing it by the low-end of job creation estimates. In other words, it wasn't a scholarly unbiased analysis. It was an agenda based hit piece. ABC News critics it here: $278K per Stimulus Job? White House Says No. - Political Punch
Quote:
then, as now, White House officials note that the spending didn't just fund salaries, it also went to the actual costs of building things -- construction materials, new factories, and such.
I would advise all to analyze facts and avoid conclusions based upon questionable evidence and methodology created merely to throw and ideological punch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,745,357 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That claim comes from the Weekly Standard taking the high-end full cost, including tax-cuts and dividing it by the low-end of job creation estimates. In other words, it wasn't a scholarly unbiased analysis. It was an agenda based hit piece. ABC News critics it here: $278K per Stimulus Job? White House Says No. - Political Punch

I would advise all to analyze facts and avoid conclusions based upon questionable evidence and methodology created merely to throw and ideological punch.
Lol, even using ABC's number north of 70k per job is still pitiful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2011, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,589,728 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venezuelan View Post
The U.S. has a trade deficit due to its oil dependency. The U.S built its cities for cars and not for people. A trade deficit will always exist because the U.S. Consumes 25 percent of the oil that is produced worldwide on a daily basis.

If the U.S. Had walkable/compact european style cities, the U.S. Would have a gigantic trade surplus and the average Joe would have a lot more disposable income.
Not to mention US society would be in better shape with far fewer social ills.

How about shutting down military bases overseas, ending the war on drugs, and pulling out of the foreign wars?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:19 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top