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Old 07-09-2011, 11:18 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
13,989 posts, read 10,932,935 times
Reputation: 12776

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[quote=momonkey;19941936][quote=momonkey;19938957][quote=momonkey;19938771]



[quote=ambient;19938983]
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post




Again we are mixing different thought processes. The behavioral immune system is based on revulsion and disgust, not reason. These emotions inhibit us from contacting people and things associated with disease. Feces is definitely associated with disease as is anal intercourse whether it be homosexual or heterosexual. No one fears a person who engages in voluntary anal intercourse, but many people are disgusted by such a person.

Members of other races may be feared or even hated, but they are not very likely to be the objects of revulsion simply because they belong to another race. The reputation members of a certain race may have for poor sanitation may cause a member of another race to become repulsed by them, but this is due to their ability to spread disease.
You probably didn't read my last response to you.

First of all, members of another race have most certainly been objects of revulsion, and racist people gave similar "scientific" arguments as you did against gays since the early 1800s right on down to Hitler and today's KKK. You may have an article that started with some observable facts, but you've taken it far beyond what is truly an objective and proof-based application. Racists did the same things and used similar "scientific" arguments to justify slavery and apartheid. So you're on "good" company there...

Scientific racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furthermore, even if one is disgusted by a behavior based on a perception of fear, most of us humans are a bit more evolved than tapeworms or chimps. That means we have the ability to also apply reason and empathy to conclude that our perception of gays posing a health risk to us is factually unfounded and that it isn't fair to shun people on such fictional bases. You and I both know that the risk gay people pose to your health is no greater than the one you face every day by coming into any number of people who you think are just like you. Once we make this step, that means we can modify our behavior.

If I learn that the stove is hot, I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as to not keep touching that stove in the future.

If I learn that women who are witches and who spread disease do not actually exist (something thought on occasion during the middle ages), then I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as not to regard them that way and mistreat them on that basis.

If I learn that gay people pose no statistically significant risk to my health - any more than anyone else I may come into contact with on any given day - then I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as not to shun them on that basis.

If I learn that other people who are different from me are ultimately humans just like me with the same core wants, desires, fears, and pains...then I can empathize with them and evolve my thinking and behavior so that I fairly apply to them the Golden Rule - i.e., to treat them as I would wish to be treated.

See how this works? This is how it works for most of us. But something is stuck inside of you. It doesn't work for you, and I'm confident that the real reasons why have little to do with your behavioral immune system - although I know it's convenient and comforting for you to hide behind that.

Last edited by ambient; 07-09-2011 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,473 posts, read 20,115,817 times
Reputation: 8388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
What do you think revulsion and disgust is based on?

And it seems many Conservatives don't seem to have the mental capacity to outgrow it.




A willingness to put questionable things in one's mouth and/or anus is nothing to be proud of.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 39,610,381 times
Reputation: 7107
I think the op has it backwards. The unnatural, the abnormal, the mental disease resides on the other side.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle Area
3,455 posts, read 6,313,867 times
Reputation: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
I think the op has it backwards. The unnatural, the abnormal, the mental disease resides on the other side.
Yes, I believe you are correct...if you are a bigoted conservative.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
13,989 posts, read 10,932,935 times
Reputation: 12776
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
I think the op has it backwards. The unnatural, the abnormal, the mental disease resides on the other side.
You'd be another one of those who should fully read my post above - but it's easier to ignore it like momonkey did because it's comfortable for you to continue to live in hatred.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,473 posts, read 20,115,817 times
Reputation: 8388
[quote=ambient;19942651][quote=momonkey;19941936][quote=momonkey;19938957][quote=momonkey;19938771]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
You probably didn't read my last response to you.

First of all, members of another race have most certainly been objects of revulsion, and racist people gave similar "scientific" arguments as you did against gays since the early 1800s right on down to Hitler and today's KKK. You may have an article that started with some observable facts, but you've taken it far beyond what is truly an objective and proof-based application. Racists did the same things and used similar "scientific" arguments to justify slavery and apartheid. So you're on "good" company there...

Scientific racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furthermore, even if one is disgusted by a behavior based on a perception of fear, most of us humans are a bit more evolved than tapeworms or chimps. That means we have the ability to also apply reason and empathy to conclude that our perception of gays posing a health risk to us is factually unfounded and that it isn't fair to shun people on such fictional bases. You and I both know that the risk gay people pose to your health is no greater than the one you face every day by coming into any number of people who you think are just like you. Once we make this step, that means we can modify our behavior.

If I learn that the stove is hot, I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as to not keep touching that stove in the future.

If I learn that women who are witches and who spread disease do not actually exist (something thought on occasion during the middle ages), then I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as not to regard them that way and mistreat them on that basis.

If I learn that gay people pose no statistically significant risk to my health - any more than anyone else I may come into contact with on any given day - then I can evolve my thinking and behavior so as not to shun them on that basis.

If I learn that other people who are different from me are ultimately humans just like me with the same core wants, desires, fears, and pains...then I can empathize with them and evolve my thinking and behavior so that I fairly apply to them the Golden Rule - i.e., to treat them as I would wish to be treated.

See how this works? This is how it works for most of us. But something is stuck inside of you. It doesn't work for you, and I'm confident that the real reasons why have little to do with your behavioral immune system - although I know it's convenient and comforting for you to hide behind that.


The behavioral immune system is innate. It is not dependent on, nor is it the result of, learned behavior. I'm sure you would contend the same is true of homosexuality.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
597 posts, read 1,157,363 times
Reputation: 414
IS HOMOPHOBIA A MENTAL DISORDER??
Of course not.
Mental disorder is a Gay to try make us believe that "Gay behavior" is normal.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
13,989 posts, read 10,932,935 times
Reputation: 12776
[quote=momonkey;19943044][quote=ambient;19942651][quote=momonkey;19941936][quote=momonkey;19938957]
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post







The behavioral immune system is innate. It is not dependent on, nor is it the result of, learned behavior. I'm sure you would contend the same is true of homosexuality.
Actually, I wouldn't contend that of all homosexuals. Based on my talks with homosexuals' experiences, I would say that a subset are innately born with it. But I would say that some subset are also the result of behavioral choice. But that's not really relevant here.

Even if everything stated thus far about the behavioral immune system was fully the case (which I'm willing to bet you misapply and grossly overstate), you still haven't shown scientific proof as to how strongly this applies - i.e., that it can't be counteracted by human ability to learn and adapt. Follow me closely here...

If we can apply our will and intelligence to learn about this innate behavioral immune system, and if we can also learn about the fact that gays don't actually pose a health risk to us...then why couldn't we learn to change our behavior? We're not squirrels; we possess a higher intelligence that can help us adapt to our circumstances. Most people learn this in grade school when they stop being afraid of "cooties".

How do you explain the untold tens to hundreds of millions of people like me who don't feel threatened by gay people, don't shun people based on their skin color, and don't look down on people of different cultures and ethnicities? And how do you explain the changing trends in terms of treatment of blacks over the past century? My behavioral immune system has no problem with being friends with gays and lesbians. The ones I've known have been good people who have treated me decently, and the most I've ever caught from any of them has been a common cold. It has never crossed my mind to be disgusted or concerned for my health. Why would it? I'm intelligent, and I can empathize with other humans who are different than me.

We've ended where we began: what you're really doing here is attempting to justify your own prejudices against those who are different from you. I'll go out on a limb here and bet that you've shunned homosexuals long before you ever heard of the "behavioral immune system". You have the willpower to hate or to accept, so you should own up to your choices and what really drives them.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,157 posts, read 4,734,848 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
No, most homophobes are ultra religious and believe being gay is wrong because the old book of fairytales has one or two innocuous lines about men not laying together or whatnot. Religion is the disorder, homophobia is one of its many symptons.
Ever notice they never mention lesbians? It's only gay men that are icky.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:05 PM
 
13,832 posts, read 14,662,123 times
Reputation: 11523
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
A willingness to put questionable things in one's mouth and/or anus is nothing to be proud of.
do you find oral sex in hetrosexuals to be a questionable activity as well
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