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Old 07-09-2011, 02:07 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,594,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
Short of violent revolution how would you propose we reform our government to that of Norway?

Voting for Democrats that espouse socialist policy will not make it happen.
Hey, if I knew the answer to that I would not be sitting here unemployed.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Those in power are greedy. And your solution is to centralize more power into one entity (government).
Well, if that one government included an overhaul of everyone in DC replaced by people who really care about this country, yes.

And even though I disagree with Ron Paul in many areas, I think he would at least make a change for the better - if only he embraced a socialist agenda.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Enter Wal-mart. Americans are used to cheap now. I really don't think (and especially given the economy) they are going to spend the extra money on the mom and pop stores. So as long as there is a Wal-mart in your town, or unless something is so niche, it really won't work at the local level either. We are being "chained" to death and I mean to say taken over by chains (aka corporations, etc).
I have said this before, but this is at the core of "our" issues. The corporate model.

This has become the defacto ideal of govt, business and even many individuals. When all you focus on is ever escalating profit year after year, forsaking everything else as lesser, you end up w/ pretty sick results. This to me isn't capitalism. It's economic sociopathy.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Well, if that one government included an overhaul of everyone in DC replaced by people who really care about this country, yes.

And even though I disagree with Ron Paul in many areas, I think he would at least make a change for the better - if only he embraced a socialist agenda.
And therein lies the downfall of your philosophy. Government in this country was never intended to provide all things for all persons.

The bigger government gets the fewer opportunities and freedoms there are for individuals. Government greed and abuse of power has done far more to drive jobs offshore than corporate greed ever could have.

The socialism you long for will never happen here. You'll see a nation filled with gulags and government oppression long before you see any benefit.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Well, if that one government included an overhaul of everyone in DC replaced by people who really care about this country, yes.
That sounds nice. But power corrupts itself. Always. You will not change human nature. Sorry.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
I have said this before, but this is at the core of "our" issues. The corporate model.

This has become the defacto ideal of govt, business and even many individuals. When all you focus on is ever escalating profit year after year, forsaking everything else as lesser, you end up w/ pretty sick results. This to me isn't capitalism. It's economic sociopathy.
As I mentioned in a previous post, somewhere along the line capitalism went wrong - when greed entered the picture. I am afraid greed is here to stay. Given that, I do not believe capitalism is sustainable in this country any longer. But I do like your term economic sociopathy too because, let's face it, there are many sociopaths at the top.

Honestly, I don't see any solution other than a complete collapse and revamping of the system into a new one. Unfortunately, this is going to be very painful and there is no new industrialization I can see on the horizon to forestall this collapse. That is the difference between what followed the Great Depression and this new soon to be Great Depression #2. Let's hope that whatever comes after the clear failure of capitalism in this country is better than what we've got now.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:22 PM
 
6,156 posts, read 4,139,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
As I mentioned in a previous post, somewhere along the line capitalism went wrong - when greed entered the picture. I am afraid greed is here to stay. Given that, I do not believe capitalism is sustainable in this country any longer. But I do like your term economic sociopathy too because, let's face it, there are many sociopaths at the top.
That's where your theory is wrong. Greed entered the picture? Are you serious? Are you telling me that people have never been greedy up until the 20th century? That's just delusional.

Greed will always exist. Which system harnesses that greed in the best way possible? Capitalism. It ain't perfect but it's the best we got. The best way to fight greed is to split up the power as much as possible. Capitalism does this better than any other system.

The bigger the government, the more concentrated the power is. Period. Greed will always find its way into the power structure. Period.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
As I mentioned in a previous post, somewhere along the line capitalism went wrong - when greed entered the picture. I am afraid greed is here to stay. Given that, I do not believe capitalism is sustainable in this country any longer. But I do like your term economic sociopathy too because, let's face it, there are many sociopaths at the top.

Honestly, I don't see any solution other than a complete collapse and revamping of the system into a new one. Unfortunately, this is going to be very painful and there is no new industrialization I can see on the horizon to forestall this collapse. That is the difference between what followed the Great Depression and this new soon to be Great Depression #2. Let's hope that whatever comes after the clear failure of capitalism in this country is better than what we've got now.
How can you honestly say giving more power to government whose members are made up of the same greedy people as the rest of the world is a good solution? In point of fact government officials aren't just greedy, they're power hungry. You'd be hard pressed to find a worse combination of motivators.

If you disagree with the policies of a corporation you're free not to do business with them and support their competitors. If you disagree with government they can send armed people to collect you, seize your assets, and force compliance.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:35 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,594,423 times
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Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
And therein lies the downfall of your philosophy. Government in this country was never intended to provide all things for all persons.

The bigger government gets the fewer opportunities and freedoms there are for individuals. Government greed and abuse of power has done far more to drive jobs offshore than corporate greed ever could have.

The socialism you long for will never happen here. You'll see a nation filled with gulags and government oppression long before you see any benefit.
I think you have that backwards. Politicians are now owned by corporations. Corporations are greedy (and so are politicians, but it's really corporations who are running the show now). And I hate to say it, but we will see gulags and government oppression before socialism. We are on our way. I wonder what socialist country would be willing to take me in at that point as an act of political asylum.

Oh well, I guess I'd better get to the mundane chores of life around here - while I still have a roof over my head.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
I think you have that backwards. Politicians are now owned by corporations. Corporations are greedy (and so are politicians, but it's really corporations who are running the show now). And I hate to say it, but we will see gulags and government oppression before socialism. We are on our way. I wonder what socialist country would be willing to take me in at that point as political asylum.

Oh well, I guess I'd better get to the mundane chores of life around here - while I still have a roof over my head.
Something to consider; Were it not for the greed of the politicians the corporations would have been unable to corrupt them. I'd argue the politicians willingness to abandon and ignore their oaths of office for personal gain and increased power are the bigger problems. That in turn makes government the bigger threat.

A corporation's primary goal is growth and profitability. A politician's professed goal is adherence to their oath of office and honest representation of their constituents. Which group is the more criminal for their actions? Which group has strayed further from the confines of their stated purpose? Which group's abuses have had a greater negative impact on our society?

Last edited by outbacknv; 07-09-2011 at 02:54 PM..
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