Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-25-2011, 07:42 AM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,002 posts, read 12,354,936 times
Reputation: 4125

Advertisements

There was an editorial I read recently which argued that the President has the authority to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally. The argument was that the 14th Amendment has a clause which states that the validity of the US debt shall never be called into question. To me it makes sense. Washington had war debts to the French for helping in the revolution, and they had more debt from financing a navy and army just prior to the War of 1812. Congress didn't have to approve of any "debt ceiling" then. Why should we now?

Not saying I think the President SHOULD have the authority to do this, but at times when petty children run the government like we have today, it is a last resort to make sure the US debt status isn't messed with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-25-2011, 07:45 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,200,125 times
Reputation: 5481
The text of the 14th amendment states "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

We are arguing of what debt should be authorized by law right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 08:52 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The text of the 14th amendment states "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

We are arguing of what debt should be authorized by law right now.
Debt and the limit of that debt are two entirely different issues.

The debt is just that, the amount of money already spent as a result of authorized spending bills. When the government doesn't have enough revenue (taxes) to pay for what it has already spent the government must raise either more revenue either by raising taxes or borrowing to pay for what it has already spent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 08:54 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,614,378 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The text of the 14th amendment states "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

We are arguing of what debt should be authorized by law right now.
Why should Skippy care if it's legal or not? He attacked Libya w/out Congressional approval...I full expect him to just sign an executive order if it comes down to it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 09:45 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Why should Skippy care if it's legal or not? He attacked Libya w/out Congressional approval...I full expect him to just sign an executive order if it comes down to it.
Let's be clear, the British and French instigated military action against Libya, the administration supported that objective but the warrant for action was the result of a very united UN that called for action. Now with regards to the War Powers Act, I believe that Obama is wrong in this regard and his explanation the other day was totally inadequate in demonstrating any authority for his actions. All of that maybe too nuanced for this forum, but I think that sometimes it is important to state the facts as they are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,929,215 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
There was an editorial I read recently which argued that the President has the authority to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally.
Of course he doesn't...but by god, I'd love to see him try it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,680,664 times
Reputation: 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
There was an editorial I read recently which argued that the President has the authority to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally. The argument was that the 14th Amendment has a clause which states that the validity of the US debt shall never be called into question. To me it makes sense. Washington had war debts to the French for helping in the revolution, and they had more debt from financing a navy and army just prior to the War of 1812. Congress didn't have to approve of any "debt ceiling" then. Why should we now?

Not saying I think the President SHOULD have the authority to do this, but at times when petty children run the government like we have today, it is a last resort to make sure the US debt status isn't messed with.
Congress controls the purse as per the constitution in fact if anything they debt can be any number just have to devalue your dollar to do it :-)
IE The federal reserve system designed to destroy the value of the dollar for the benefit of the rich who get to use the new money first.
The President can not do anything other then sign bills when it comes to MONEY!
If he does he should be impeached.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 10:03 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,614,378 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Let's be clear, the British and French instigated military action against Libya, the administration supported that objective but the warrant for action was the result of a very united UN that called for action. Now with regards to the War Powers Act, I believe that Obama is wrong in this regard and his explanation the other day was totally inadequate in demonstrating any authority for his actions. All of that maybe too nuanced for this forum, but I think that sometimes it is important to state the facts as they are.
Did Congress approve of the action?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 10:09 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,724,250 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Let's be clear, the British and French instigated military action against Libya, the administration supported that objective but the warrant for action was the result of a very united UN that called for action. Now with regards to the War Powers Act, I believe that Obama is wrong in this regard and his explanation the other day was totally inadequate in demonstrating any authority for his actions. All of that maybe too nuanced for this forum, but I think that sometimes it is important to state the facts as they are.

The Constitution does not yield power to the UN. The CONGRESS speaks for the United States, not Barry. He cannot commit our military or money without approval from THE PEOPLE via the Congress.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:41 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top