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Old 07-28-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,237,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Huh?

Read the first post, I said the President enforces the law. He executes it.
I was referring to your statement about the Constitution. If I misunderstood, I apologize.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,334,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I was referring to your statement about the Constitution. If I misunderstood, I apologize.
You didn't quote anything I said about the constitution.

Exactly what did I say about the constitution do you disagree with?
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Ridge, Cincinnati, OH
1,040 posts, read 1,331,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Memphis, what you wrote above and what you stated earlier are contradictory. Glad you looked it up and got it straight. I was not being mean spirited - but your earlier statement was not correct. The courts (Judicial branch) enforce the laws of the land, not the President.
The courts interpret the laws. Their role is to:
a. Confirm that the laws fall within the confines of the power given to the government by the Constitution
b. Confirm that the execution/enforcement of the law by the executive branch is, in fact, within the confines of the law.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Ridge, Cincinnati, OH
1,040 posts, read 1,331,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash3780 View Post
Woah, what? The President doesn't "enforce the Constitution". The President enforces laws passed by the Congress that fall within the restrictions of the Constitution. The President can't say "I don't think that the Congress is doing their job, so I will do it for them." That's the whole separation of powers business. Geez.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
He is charged with executing the law, hence the name "Executive branch".

That means he enforces it.

Without federal enforcement of federal law, then there would be no federal government.
Per my original statement. The Constitution merely defines the roles of the different branches of government. It is not a "law" so much as a restriction on the power of government. Laws are written by Congress, and the President enforces them. The President doesn't "enforce the Constitution" but rather is restricted by the Constitution. If the President bypasses the Congress and creates his or her own laws, it bypasses the checks and balances built into the US government. It gives the President carte blanche to write the laws that he or she wishes to enforce... a lot of power for one person.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,334,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash3780 View Post
Per my original statement. The Constitution merely defines the roles of the different branches of government. It is not a "law" so much as a restriction on the power of government. Laws are written by Congress, and the President enforces them. The President doesn't "enforce the Constitution" but rather is restricted by the Constitution. If the President bypasses the Congress and creates his or her own laws, it bypasses the checks and balances built into the US government. It gives the President carte blanche to write the laws that he or she wishes to enforce... a lot of power for one person.
If the constitution has a restriction or a law within it, kind of like prohibition, then its the Presidents job to enforce that.

The 14th amendment says that the debts of the United States must be paid. As such, the President is required by his oath of office to honor that.

It could be worded, by your post, as he is restricted to having to pay the interest on the debt.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Ridge, Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
If the constitution has a restriction or a law within it, kind of like prohibition, then its the Presidents job to enforce that.

The 14th amendment says that the debts of the United States must be paid. As such, the President is required by his oath of office to honor that.

It could be worded, by your post, as he is restricted to having to pay the interest on the debt.
The 14th Amendment says no such thing. It confirms the validity of public debt. A temporarily unpaid credit card is still a valid debt, for example. An example of an invalid debt would be a debt that was not agreed to by both parties.

That section of the 14th Amendment was written to ensure America's debtors that it would recognize Civil War debts as being valid debts, while stating that the US would not honor debts incurred by the Confederacy. That was really the point... stating that nobody was getting paid back for lending the South money.

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says:
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
So, the President doesn't have the authority to bypass the Constitution... no matter what he says.

That said, they just need to stop spending so much bleeding money... not default on their debt. There are military bases around the world and numerous foreign wars that are simply not necessary.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,974,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
If the constitution has a restriction or a law within it, kind of like prohibition, then its the Presidents job to enforce that.

The 14th amendment says that the debts of the United States must be paid. As such, the President is required by his oath of office to honor that.

It could be worded, by your post, as he is restricted to having to pay the interest on the debt.



No I don't accept this intrepretation. I think it says the USA must pay debts authorized by Congress or incured during a national emergency such as a rebellion. The only way I see this is valid is for the President to declare that a state of insurection or rebellion exists within the United States, suspendes the Constitution and puts the nation under Martial Law.

There is a better possibility that has been talked up. Article 1 which allows unilateral action by the President if someone commits an Act of Treason by interferring with the President's role of Commander in Chief. It doesn't specify what action and might be wide enough to drive a Constitutional truck through. It was what gave Abraham Lincoln the power to suspend civil law create an income tax and authorize miltary action against those Anerican citizens in a state of rebellion against the Federal government.
Now we are under multiple national security emergencies issued by Executive Order. For example the national emergency initiated by the Tonkin Gulf incident has never been take off the books. So finding a group of Americans interfering with US military actions by making it impossible to geterate valid contracts and purchase orders or even pay US military personnel or defense contractors
wouldn't be a stretch now?
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,974,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Well the courts have already ruled on the subject (already sighted for your review), and even Obama already said SS checks dont have to be issued.

Right on the Social Security website
Social Security Online History Pages

[SIZE=2]2. A PERSON COVERED BY THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT HAS NOT SUCH A RIGHT IN OLD-AGE BENEFIT PAYMENTS AS WOULD MAKE EVERY DEFEASANCE OF "ACCRUED" INTERESTS VIOLATIVE OF THE DUE PROCESS CLAUSE OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT. PP. 608-611.[/SIZE]

THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM MAY BE ACCURATELY DESCRIBED AS A FORM OF SOCIAL INSURANCE, ENACTED PURSUANT TO CONGRESS' POWER TO "SPEND MONEY IN AID OF THE 'GENERAL WELFARE,'"

IT WAS DOUBTLESS OUT OF AN AWARENESS OF THE NEED FOR SUCH
FLEXIBILITY THAT CONGRESS INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL ACT, AND HAS SINCE RETAINED, A CLAUSE EXPRESSLY RESERVING TO IT "THE RIGHT TO ALTER, AMEND, OR REPEAL ANY PROVISION" OF THE ACT.

You have NO RIGHT to Social Security. A right is something that can NOT be repealed.


The problem is the US Constiution guarrentees no rights at all for anything in it can be countermanded by the Ammendment process. For example the 2nd Ammendent could be negated just like the Prohibition Amendment was negated in 1933.
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