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View Poll Results: Do you believe that carbon dioxide and other gases are leading to global warming?
Yes 24 25.81%
No 59 63.44%
Not sure 10 10.75%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-01-2011, 09:41 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,930,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I have several times on these boards. Don't want to do it again. Go to a library instead of posting articles slamming "alarmists."
No you haven't. Remember, anyone can search your posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
If I can get the Remote Sensing journal article, I will read it and post back.
Please do.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:00 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,037,012 times
Reputation: 2033
Global warming is the least of our worries.....we shoul be more worried about global pollution of our air, water supplies, deforestation/destruction of the rain forests, and overfishing of the oceans. These are not some pie in the sky computer models saying this stuff isn't or is happening. So while the idiots fight over global warming our planet gets hammered.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Global warming is the least of our worries.....we shoul be more worried about global pollution of our air, water supplies, deforestation/destruction of the rain forests, and overfishing of the oceans. These are not some pie in the sky computer models saying this stuff isn't or is happening. So while the idiots fight over global warming our planet gets hammered.
overfishing???? so you want more people to starve...or are you a progressive and want eugentics???


this year we will reach 7 billion in world population.. and 1 billion will be in levels of starvation
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:57 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,930,013 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Global warming is the least of our worries.....we shoul be more worried about global pollution of our air, water supplies, deforestation/destruction of the rain forests, and overfishing of the oceans. These are not some pie in the sky computer models saying this stuff isn't or is happening. So while the idiots fight over global warming our planet gets hammered.
By all means, make the points of each and provide the direct cause, the analysis that supports the position, and the solution relevant to that analysis.

Otherwise, you are just throwing out words of emotional claim and it doesn't mean a thing.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:05 PM
 
4,734 posts, read 4,318,675 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Au contraire ..... Science is made up of human beings, consequently one cannot separate human behavior from science. And like other areas of science I mentioned previously, "Climate Science" demonstrates the same less admirable elements of human behavior ... dishonesty, lack of integrity, shamelessness, greed, and worse.



Got it! And in a classic demonstration of tactical deception, roll out the big scary numbers. But once the entire story is revealed, those big scary numbers aren't so scary.

So lets de-mystify the numbers .... first thing is, the so called green house gases make up about 1% of the total atmosphere ... 99 % is Oxygen and Nitrogen, roughly 21% and 78% respectively. Of that remaining 1% which are considered green house gases, water vapor is 95% of that. CO2 is a minuscule fraction of the total atmosphere, and a tiny fraction of the gree house gases, and man made CO2 a tiny fraction (3%) of that!

Yes, 25 Billion Tons sounds horrific!! Oh the humanity!!! God help us, I doubt we'll survive until lunchtime tomorrow!! The reality is, it's not really THAT BAD .... 25 Billion Tons of man made CO2, or 25 Gigatons or 25 GT for short, may sound pretty bad, but guess what? That represents about 3% of the total CO2 being released into the carbon cycle (yes there's a cycle, actually three ... short, medium and long cycles) of which 439 GT is released from the land and vegetation, and an additional 332 GT from the Oceans, making the total ratio of man made to natural release 25/796 GT, or .031 or 3%. That's 3% of the 1% of the total atmosphere.

So we're supposed to believe that this 3% contributed by man is some type of straw that is breaking the planet's back ... the other 97%, not so much ... but that 3% is a real problem? Perhaps, if you possess not one iota of basic common sense, you might buy this story ... but you really have to test the boundaries of gullibility to do so ... especially when you consider the fact that C02 has no causative affect in the warming cycle to begin with (a fact you keep conveniently avoiding in this discussion) ... but even if it did (and it doesn't), the effect of that 3% would be measurably insignificant, as would any potential benefit of reducing it.

Of course, as they say, the "Devil is in the details". If you were to reduce human CO2 production by half (1.5%), with no reasonable expectation of any significant benefit in doing so ... but doing it just to be on the safe side ... it is estimated that at least 2+ Billion people would necessarily have to die to accomplish the task. Isn't that charming? You planning on volunteering to be one of those 2 Billion? Or is that unfortunate fate reserved for the brown people of the third world countries?

This, my friend, is the agenda behind this AGW fraud .... population reduction, and total control of all human activity on Earth ... after all ... the moment you agree that man-made CO2 poses a planetary climate threat, you open the door wide to draconian restrictions on CO2 output. Since all human activity produces CO2, (including breathing) all human activity will be subject to regulation and restrictions from domestic household energy usage, to manufacturing, agriculture and food production, transportation and travel ... the list is endless and the consequences incalculable. There literally is no greater threat to liberty and freedom than that posed by accepting this unmitigated fraud, and allowing this to rule over our lives. Supporting this scam is an act of idiocy by those who are unwittingly advocating their own imprisonment, slavery, and destruction.



More double talk and straw man arguments ... you cherry pick volcanoes, but don't discuss the real numbers as outlined above, showing man's CO2 contribution as MINUSCULE relative to the total carbon cycle.



It's absurd for you to speak for anyone other than yourself, let alone everyone on this forum ... because you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. In fact, you're way off. And I'm directly challenging the mainstream pseudoscience that claims CO2 as the driver of TODAY'S Global Warmin/Climate Change. And that has been the mantra, repeated over and over for over a decade. It's toatal BS, and most people have now figured that out. Try to catch up.



I never suggested that humans can't be destructive. I'm sure most would agree that some humans are very good at destroying things. But destroying things has nothing to do with Global Warming ... unless of course you mean destroying the planet? I suggest that self destruction would come long before we could possibly destroy the planet.

And, to be honest, that is the AGW argument in a nutshell, with the proposed solution being to intentionally destroy ourselves first, in order to prevent us from destroying the planet.



Why do you believe humans are warming the Earth? Because you been fed this BS and have bought into it hook-line and sinker? Because you are drowning in Kool-Aide? OR is it because you have a secret loathing of the human species?

There's another point being overlooked here. I'm of the opinion that warmer is better than colder, for a very long list of reasons which shouldn't require a great deal of explanation for those who consider themselves in the brilliant category. CO2 is a beneficial gas, and the more of it the better, because it provides the environment for more abundant vegetation on the planet, offering more sustinence for all of the other life that relies on that as a source of food.

Secondly, I understand very well, the science as it has been presented, and it's a totally transparrent con job for which a 9 year old SHOULD be able to see right through, like a clean pane of clear glass. OK?

And I don't confuse weather with climate ... so what happened in Phoenix this year compared to last is totally irrelevant to the conversation of climate.



I don't read Newsmax ....but my suggestion to you is to stop ignoring the very simplistic relationship between global warming cycles and rising CO2 levels, which precludes CO2 from being a causative factor, since the rising levels of CO2 occur 800 years after a warming period. This doesn't require a degree in Rocket Science .... even the most unsophisticated among us should find that concept easy to grasp.



Good ... we're making progress. Now, the only missing piece of the puzzle is for you to grasp the fact that CO2 played no role in those natural forces which caused the multiple warming cycles of the past. Then, you'll see how preposterous it is to believe it magically does now.



Yes ... YES!!!!! Why would you consider it plausible or reasonable to conclude that the same mechanisms at work in the past are not also the same mechanisms at work today? Why would you find it more plausible that a totally unique cause exists today, while dismissing the natural cycles of climate that have been taking place for hundreds of thousands of years? Your thinking is completely backwards, and you have the nerve to question my logic? You're demonstrating a level of cognitive dissonance that's actually quite disturbing.



I see the Twilight Zone, that's what I see. But, speaking of holding your breath ... that's really the bottom line solution you're advocating ... that we all need to stop exhaling all of this CO2. So feel free to start without us.



When ever a crime is committed, the standard operating procedure is ... "follow the money", so for you to claim that money isn't relevant to the debate, well, that's just childish naivete'.



Fraud supporting a fraud ... first, there is no consensus .. there are only those who have joined the AGW bandwagon, and those who oppose it. Those who oppose it are attacked, ridiculed, marginalized and blocked out from the mainstream, by being refused publication in scientific journals which tout themselves as "peer reviewed", which is just another way of saying "conforming to accepted dogma". It's a form of group think and control ... anyone stepping outside the box is either reeled back in, or excommunicated.



You keep injecting this "Right Wing" nonsense into the debate ... but my opinions have nothing whatsoever to do with politics ... that is apparently the little box you live in ... this right-left illusion.

I don't know what you're blathering about with the "New York Times" and this "one guy" crap. The whole freaking lot of these frauds at the UN, it's IPCC, the Climate Centers like East Anglia CRU have been exposed repeatedly for engaging in overt fraud and manipulation of data to support this "good science" you embrace ... and the consensus opinion that doesn't exist.

But you aren't going to be fooled .... nosirree!!



You need to read and research more ... and do less talking. Start here:

IPCC Researchers Admit Global Warming Fraud (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2377-ipcc-researchers-admit-global-warming-fraud - broken link)

Data Disproves Global Warming Computer Models (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8399-data-disproves-global-warming-computer-models - broken link)

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism - Yahoo! News

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: NASA keeps mum on data that could disprove anthropogenic global warming theory

There's tons of resources, and no excuse for such ignorance you've demonstrated here.
I haven't the time nor the desire to keep doing this with you. I think you are dancing around the subject.

I will end my contributions for now by pointing out that Americans' belief in global warming puts them in the same company as oil-producing countries from the Middle East, China, and Russia. All of these countries believe that global warming doesn't exist, and refuse to accept manmade global warming. We're a bit out of step with every other nation in the industrialized world, and most of the other nations on earth that typically rank high in terms of education (on things other than math and computers, that is - China's good at skills but they're otherwise brainwashed). The international community gets it, even as Americans who are basically frying their asses off in the Midwest and begging for water in Texas wonder if the strange weather is nature or a sign from Gawd.

As with the economy, good luck 'Merikuh.
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,242,112 times
Reputation: 1201
These polls only further show that the level of understanding and scientific knowledge in this country continues to just evaporate.

I welcome challenging all scientific findings (pro- and anti-AGW). Yet on this board it seems that that when an anti-AGW piece comes out (like this recent article from Spencer, which has some major issues and people have overstretched the conclusions), the level of scrutiny and of skepticism for those articles is almost non-existent. No study is perfect and there are levels of uncertainty and significance for all findings, particularly when you are dealing with measurements and statistics. But let's keep that level of criticism up for all sides. Instead, like politics, this turns into a one side vs. the other side with no way of communicating intelligently on the matter.
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Old 08-03-2011, 06:10 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,242,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
Instead, like politics, this turns into a one side vs. the other side with no way of communicating intelligently on the matter.
When the politicians move to rob you blind and cripple you by regulations, there is no room for intelligent debate anymore. Then it's just violence and violence pushes people into the defense.
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Old 08-03-2011, 06:22 AM
 
30,030 posts, read 18,600,956 times
Reputation: 20810
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Further proof American's are the dumbest people in the industrialized world.


................. of course you mean the 44%?

Odanny, why in the world do you embrace the concept of "global warming" when there is no sound scientific evidence to support the concept?

Remember how close we were to these idiots advocating flooding the atmosphere with sulfer dioxide and coating desert areas with reflective material to "combat" global warming? It sounds like Don Quixote fighting the windmill.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,242,112 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTrashed View Post
When the politicians move to rob you blind and cripple you by regulations, there is no room for intelligent debate anymore. Then it's just violence and violence pushes people into the defense.
Regulations are needed. Over-regulation is of course subjective and can be detrimental.

As an aside, I believe that this country's only chance for economic revival is through renewable energy technology and vastly improving energy efficiency. The free market system cannot deal with this because it suffers from the 'externality problem' - i.e., not counting in costs for continuing to using current fuels (oil, coal, etc.) This is where government needs to step in. The price of gasoline and oil are not going to come down to the $20/barrel days we enjoyed in the mid 20th century. Simply put, the competition for resources is too high. However, the issue is that people want to tie energy revolutions to climate change. I find that an unnecessary 'tie'. We should want newer, cleaner energy resources because they make our nation safer, physically and economically, and will generate much more innovation and scientific advancements.

If we mobilized to put a man on the moon for the mere fact of beating the Russians to it, we should have that same desire to become an energy-independent, renewable-based energy economy before others in the world.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,692,854 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Au contraire ..... Science is made up of human beings, consequently one cannot separate human behavior from science. And like other areas of science I mentioned previously, "Climate Science" demonstrates the same less admirable elements of human behavior ... dishonesty, lack of integrity, shamelessness, greed, and worse.

.....

This, my friend, is the agenda behind this AGW fraud .... population reduction, and total control of all human activity on Earth ... after all ... the moment you agree that man-made CO2 poses a planetary climate threat, you open the door wide to draconian restrictions on CO2 output. Since all human activity produces CO2, (including breathing) all human activity will be subject to regulation and restrictions from domestic household energy usage, to manufacturing, agriculture and food production, transportation and travel ... the list is endless and the consequences incalculable. There literally is no greater threat to liberty and freedom than that posed by accepting this unmitigated fraud, and allowing this to rule over our lives. ....
You are correct. The ultimate goal of the AGW fanatics is wealth redistribution and they don't hide this agenda.


(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.[LEFT]
Read more: UN IPCC Official Admits 'We Redistribute World's Wealth By Climate Policy' | NewsBusters.org
[/LEFT]
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