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Old 07-31-2011, 11:34 AM
 
29,407 posts, read 21,996,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
Pelosi is a victim of the quoted- out-of-cotext, sensationalist gotcha media. These hacks on the left and right distort everyone. I don't hang out on far left media sites, but I'm sure if I clicked over to one of them, I'd read some headline about how Boehner is a fascist corporatist working to undermine the nation. Not true.

Imagine Senate Majority Leader Sanders and Speaker Kucinech. That's what our party would look like if we let the tail wag the dog. We don't. The Democratic Party has been centrist since Clinton.
Many democrats I know are centrist but the ones in DC have been taken over by the loon brigade. I also know many, my neighbor in particular, who was taken in by the hope and change and now regrets it. I have to remind him every day though.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:38 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Mid-day Sunday, July 31st. White House and Senate Dems and Reps have hammered out an agreement on the debt ceiling. It is vital to life as we know it.

As soon as the Senate votes, the House becomes the focus. "Progressives" may not go for it; the Tea Party may not go for it. Most of the non-fringe elements of both parties will vote for it.

So the question is, are progressives and the tea party going to vote to wreck our credit rating, cause interest rates to slyrocket and markets to crash? Or will there be enough people in the middle to save the day?

What do you think?
The Progressives are going out of their way to make certain the POTUS is given the "nuclear option". The Tea Party was greatly responsible for passing CC&B through the House which had the Progressives been willing to act in the best interest of this country, instead of working for Marxist statism, would have addressed the problem to the satisfaction of the credit rating agencies and actually reduced our debt while allowing the debt ceiling to be raised. Thus the logical conclusion is that the large central government powers that be are the enemy within hell-bent on distroying our Republic and our Constitution.

I suggest those who do not know read through the Executive Orders of Clinton and GW Bush to understand what the "nuclear option" entails. The chatter about the 14th Amendment is smoke and mirrors to what these statist really have up their sleeves.

Clue: Emergency Powers that would permanently shift the power of the purse from the House and Congress as a whole to the POTUS, enacting a real dictatorship.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:40 AM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,919,738 times
Reputation: 11790
If we don't pass the Balanced Budget Amendment, our credit rating is toast in any deal they come up with, unless the deficit is cut overnight and not over 10 years like they want. I'd say there's a 50% chance of a downgrade how things stand currently
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:42 AM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,919,738 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The Progressives are going out of their way to make certain the POTUS is given the "nuclear option". The Tea Party was greatly responsible for passing CC&B through the House which had the Progressives been willing to act in the best interest of this country, instead of working for Marxist statism, would have addressed the problem to the satisfaction of the credit rating agencies and actually reduced our debt while allowing the debt ceiling to be raised. Thus the logical conclusion is that the large central government powers that be are the enemy within hell-bent on distroying our Republic and our Constitution.

I suggest those who do not know read through the Executive Orders of Clinton and GW Bush to understand what the "nuclear option" entails. The chatter about the 14th Amendment is smoke and mirrors to what these statist really have up their sleeves.

Clue: Emergency Powers that would permanently shift the power of the purse from the House and Congress as a whole to the POTUS, enacting a real dictatorship.
Let's call a spade a spade. Emergency Powers IS martial law and that is the nuclear option. Successive EOs passed before Obama became president would give the White House absolute control of the economy, communications, and transportation, and transfer legislative powers to the Executive Branch until the emergency/martial law is declared over.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:42 AM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
Reputation: 11191
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Many democrats I know are centrist but the ones in DC have been taken over by the loon brigade. I also know many, my neighbor in particular, who was taken in by the hope and change and now regrets it. I have to remind him every day though.
From day one, I saw Obama as a bland centrist who would more or less stay the course. I expected him to do pretty much exactly what he did with the wars. (I know many voted for him, who otherwise would not have voted for a Democrat, because they thought he was going to end the wars immediately.) I was surprised he didn't shut down Gitmo and curb the Patriot Act. Those are two things I thought he could do and would do. Sadly, nope.

As far as the economy goes, Bush and Obama were in exact agreement on what to do when it tanked. I have asbolutely no doubt in my mind that McCain would be following pretty much the same course Obama is now. Economies are bigger than presidents. However, I do realize that they unfairly get credit for them, and they unfairly take the blame for them.

I honestly don't get why Obama's other big initiative -- health care -- is such a flash point for Republicans. This was THEIR plan in the 90s. This is why Romney is now in the uncomfortable position of running against his own freakin' plan. No wonder he flips and flops so much... he can't keep up with the schizophrenia of his own party.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,372 posts, read 9,308,171 times
Reputation: 7364
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Mid-day Sunday, July 31st. White House and Senate Dems and Reps have hammered out an agreement on the debt ceiling. It is vital to life as we know it.

As soon as the Senate votes, the House becomes the focus. "Progressives" may not go for it; the Tea Party may not go for it. Most of the non-fringe elements of both parties will vote for it.

So the question is, are progressives and the tea party going to vote to wreck our credit rating, cause interest rates to slyrocket and markets to crash? Or will there be enough people in the middle to save the day?

What do you think?
The Tea Party has already wrecked our country at the worst possible time in our economic history, and they've wrecked the confidence other countries have in us for investment purposes. Every time in the future when the debt ceiling needs to be raised, they will wonder if we'll make good on our debts. Other countries don't saddle themselves with debt ceiling rules. They just assume if they need more money, they will borrow it and until the Tea Party came long, raising the debt ceiling was a simple book keeping process for us and usually a stand-alone vote. This manufactured crisis should never have been tied to the budget debates. One is about paying for past debts and the other is about future spending.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:48 AM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
Reputation: 11191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
The Tea Party has already wrecked our country at the worst possible time in our economic history, and they've wrecked the confidence other countries have in us for investment purposes. Every time in the future when the debt ceiling needs to be raised, they will wonder if we'll make good on our debts. Other countries don't saddle themselves with debt ceiling rules. They just assume if they need more money, they will borrow it and until the Tea Party came long, raising the debt ceiling was a simple book keeping process for us and usually a stand-alone vote. This manufactured crisis should never have been tied to the budget debates. One is about paying for past debts and the other is about future spending.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:49 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Let's call a spade a spade. Emergency Powers IS martial law and that is the nuclear option. Successive EOs passed before Obama became president would give the White House absolute control of the economy, communications, and transportation, and transfer legislative powers to the Executive Branch until the emergency/martial law is declared over.
Actually, as I understand it, the power of the purse would be permanently shifted to the Executive Branch, thus nullifying Congressional power over implementing legislation or restricting federal agencies (via funding/de-funding) permanently.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:52 AM
 
29,407 posts, read 21,996,065 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
From day one, I saw Obama as a bland centrist who would more or less stay the course. I expected him to do pretty much exactly what he did with the wars. (I know many voted for him, who otherwise would not have voted for a Democrat, because they thought he was going to end the wars immediately.) I was surprised he didn't shut down Gitmo and curb the Patriot Act. Those are two things I thought he could do and would do. Sadly, nope.

As far as the economy goes, Bush and Obama were in exact agreement on what to do when it tanked. I have asbolutely no doubt in my mind that McCain would be following pretty much the same course Obama is now. Economies are bigger than presidents. However, I do realize that they unfairly get credit for them, and they unfairly take the blame for them.

I honestly don't get why Obama's other big initiative -- health care -- is such a flash point for Republicans. This was THEIR plan in the 90s. This is why Romney is now in the uncomfortable position of running against his own freakin' plan. No wonder he flips and flops so much... he can't keep up with the schizophrenia of his own party.
Obama is a bland follower. He has not done much of anything other than blame problems on everybody else. He ramped up this hope and change message that many people bought hook line and sinker. They were tired of Bush and wanted "change" but looking back I don't think this is what they were thinking of. He is a great campaigner but I think he's done in '12. I don't see any way he gets re elected with the shape things are in now no matter who the cause was and there's plenty of blame to go around.

Well healthcare had a chance of passing in the '90's but bubba had that little fiasco with the lady in the dress that threw everything into a tizzy. I don't remember the actual details back then because I was more interested in chasing women and booze at the time.

Romney's plan is the problem. It didn't work and they want to put it soething like it across the nation now. It's not just healthcare that is in this mess of a bill. It's all the little tidbits thrown in that nobody read then was rammed down the throats of congress to get through. The big argument was these 40 some million uninsured. Well they could have come up with something to do that, created a pool for high risk folks who couldn't get regular insurance and be done with it. 3K page bill or whatever it was is ridiculous. Now if the supremes rule that the government can force folks to buy something (healthcare) what will be next? You buy a volt or don't drive? Who knows what they'll dream up.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:53 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
The Tea Party has already wrecked our country at the worst possible time in our economic history, and they've wrecked the confidence other countries have in us for investment purposes. Every time in the future when the debt ceiling needs to be raised, they will wonder if we'll make good on our debts. Other countries don't saddle themselves with debt ceiling rules. They just assume if they need more money, they will borrow it and until the Tea Party came long, raising the debt ceiling was a simple book keeping process for us and usually a stand-alone vote. This manufactured crisis should never have been tied to the budget debates. One is about paying for past debts and the other is about future spending.
Girl, it wasn't the Tea Party spending this country into oblivion. It wasn't the Tea Party monitizing the debt. It wasn't the Tea Party passing Obamacare. It wasn't the Tea Party growing the entitlement state.It wasn't the Tea Party getting the USA and NATO into an undeclared 5+ month war in Libya or arming Al Qaeda.

I suggest removing the blinders, picking up a mirror, and then reading up on Austrian economics. The followers of Keynesian ecomonics have destroyed our economy and manipulated our monetary system into the disaster we are now in. While you are at it try reading the US Constitution.

The father of the modern Tea Party back in 1983 warning of what is happening today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVg3hKCzx0
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