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View Poll Results: If CCB had passed, would our Credit Rating have been cut?
Yes, it still would have. We're just in too deep. 55 36.18%
No. It would have shown we were serious about getting spending under control. 93 61.18%
I don't care, I want to keep spending like it's 1999. 4 2.63%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,125,061 times
Reputation: 27718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
All of those examples prove that liberalism failed. If it was so successful, there wouldnt be such a high need for them, nor would they allow people to use taxpayer welfare income, to pay for mortgages. No mortgage company in their right mind would approve of that, without that other liberal program called government guarantees.
Or letters from the DOJ threatening discriminatory lawsuits.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:57 AM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,496,294 times
Reputation: 18301
Quote:
Originally Posted by HC475 View Post
Is there any doubt that the actions of the Tea Party Republicans have brought us to the brink of depression... Then blame liberals... You don't drastically cut back government spending in a recession, unless your goal is to cause a depression... Also keep in mind that virtually all of the debt was created by the Republicans with their unfunded wars and tax cuts for the wealthy...
The cause of teh recession was spending.both privte and government. Cuts is exactly what all nationas and even states have been doing for amore than two yesr now.When you spedn and borrow 40 cents of every dollar this is the effect. That builds future liablitiesd and both consumers and business stop spending to because they see cuts and higher taxes coming to do what we just saw;paying to service that debt.The more money spent on debt the less spent in the economy.We saw what Obamas so called stimulus did and we will likely see out crdit card limit decrease while our interest eats more of our taxes collected. The present course in in fact unsustainable and can bring total collpase not the recessio we see now23.this is nothing like a depression seen in the 30's.Look at Germnay who actaully redcued their governamnt spneding and their postion as a economy in europe. Spain;Greece'Italy ;iceland and other followed your advise and we see what happened.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,700,152 times
Reputation: 5689
Funny thing is, some of these posts are partially correct. The Tea Partiers that never worked in government or as lobbyists before 2010 are probably not to blame for the recession. The majority that were in power in long before 2010, are probably as guilty as anyone. Dick Armey? Ari Fleisher? Ron Paul? Eric Cantor? Jim Demint? Fresh faces?

If is also funny how they claim the TPs could have never caused all this, but they don't extend the same common sense to Obama. Somehow, ALL of the current troubles are due to his tax and spend, wishy washing, yet still dictatorial incompetence! Two years is enough to ruin the strongest country on earth with a socialist dictator wimp at the helm!!!!!!!!

The truth is the meltdown and deficit were caused by the same grovel before Wall Street and the wealthy policies that have plagued both parties,but especially republicans, for at least 20 years. The Tea Party just wants more of the same, except that they want to put the government workers out of jobs too.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,608,323 times
Reputation: 11309
Default S&P downgrades US Credit Rating from AAA to AA

We all know the rhetoric from Washington was that this would happen if the ceiling were not raised.

I am curious as to the public consensus as to who is to blame more, though both parties are to blame.

I seriously think taxing the richer folks may have given a long term plan towards putting a dent on the national debt. I am not really sure if the super-rich would run away with their assets if they have to pay more taxes, an argument used against taxing them.

And clearly, S&P says the inefficiency of Washington factored in the downgrade, thanks to the pig-headedness of the GOP and the tea party.

And let's not forget the infamous stimulus package, some of which went into the alternate energy sector, for example, which has completely collapsed. Case in point: A123 systems opened their IPO at over 15 bucks, and they sit at 4 bucks now, reaching 52-week lows every quarter with steepening losses, despite millions of stimulus money, literally money went down a hole.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:36 PM
 
27,206 posts, read 46,532,718 times
Reputation: 15661
The Netherlands has a high tax schedule for the rich, and most of them left, even fled just across the border to Belgium...every sane person will leave if they work hard and the harder they work the more they have to pay...that way being lazy will be awarded and active smart people will do what they can to avoid that and IMO they are right!


The longer you provide unemployment the longer people will wait to find a job.


We see it every day in our business when tenants are telling us all kinds of B.S. And how many of them apply for disability, luckily not of them get it, but don't think they will try to get a job, no they wait for that check to come and will do anything to be part of the group that get a bailout.

Every eviction there is a wheel chair, etc. That is left behind and tenants always walk in our office like nothing is wrong, but close to home they are in need of a wheel chair or have it ready when they need to be checked out....

If all the fraud is taken care of that would eliminate a lot of money and save us millions!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
We all know the rhetoric from Washington was that this would happen if the ceiling were not raised.

I am curious as to the public consensus as to who is to blame more, though both parties are to blame.

I seriously think taxing the richer folks may have given a long term plan towards putting a dent on the national debt. I am not really sure if the super-rich would run away with their assets if they have to pay more taxes, an argument used against taxing them.

And clearly, S&P says the inefficiency of Washington factored in the downgrade, thanks to the pig-headedness of the GOP and the tea party.

And let's not forget the infamous stimulus package, some of which went into the alternate energy sector, for example, which has completely collapsed. Case in point: A123 systems opened their IPO at over 15 bucks, and they sit at 4 bucks now, reaching 52-week lows every quarter with steepening losses, despite millions of stimulus money, literally money went down a hole.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:38 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,120,394 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
We all know the rhetoric from Washington was that this would happen if the ceiling were not raised.

I am curious as to the public consensus as to who is to blame more, though both parties are to blame.

I seriously think taxing the richer folks may have given a long term plan towards putting a dent on the national debt. I am not really sure if the super-rich would run away with their assets if they have to pay more taxes, an argument used against taxing them.

And clearly, S&P says the inefficiency of Washington factored in the downgrade, thanks to the pig-headedness of the GOP and the tea party.

And let's not forget the infamous stimulus package, some of which went into the alternate energy sector, for example, which has completely collapsed. Case in point: A123 systems opened their IPO at over 15 bucks, and they sit at 4 bucks now, reaching 52-week lows every quarter with steepening losses, despite millions of stimulus money, literally money went down a hole.
I personally think it was orchestrated to purposely take down the United States. We both know the Republicans and Democrats work for the same team so there was no use voting in the poll.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,608,323 times
Reputation: 11309
I have to quote Ariadne from my thread in the investing board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Political gridlock which will prevent constructive steps to correct our structural problems, was the final nail, it appears. S&P calculating error was peripheral. If I owned trillions of US debt, I might be more than a little disturbed after that ridiculous display last week which has gone a long way to undermining confidence in our form of governance worldwide. Inmates running the asylum.

Entire release here:

S&P Downgrades U.S. Debt Rating — Press Release - MarketBeat - WSJ
Quote:
– More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

– Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government’s debt dynamics any time soon.

– The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to ‘AA’ within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures.

It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.

Our opinion is that elected officials remain wary of tackling the structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden in a manner consistent with a ‘AAA’ rating and with ‘AAA’ rated sovereign peers (see Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions,” June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41).

In our view, the difficulty in framing a consensus on fiscal policy weakens the government’s ability to manage public finances and diverts attention from the debate over how to achieve more balanced and dynamic economic growth in an era of fiscal stringency and private-sector deleveraging (ibid).

A new political consensus might (or might not) emerge after the 2012 elections, but we believe that by then, the government debt burden will likely be higher, the needed medium-term fiscal adjustment potentially greater, and the inflection point on the U.S. population’s demographics and other age-related spending drivers closer at hand (see “Global Aging 2011: In The U.S., Going Gray Will Likely Cost Even More Green, Now,” June 21, 2011).
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Midwest
4,670 posts, read 5,058,575 times
Reputation: 6829
C

Both parties suck and are to blame.

P.S. Pointing fingers will only increase the divide. This is a time when we have to come together if we want things change for the better.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,608,323 times
Reputation: 11309
So, there, you can see the number of words written about political brinkmanship and the charade of intense squabbling in Washington, which was played out on global television.

You can blame the Prez all you want, but the fact of the matter is clear and there is proof that Boehner could not even pass his own budget among the GOP and the tea party.

When he postponed the vote two days, called them out to get their asses in line and all the last minute wrangling...... it was very clear that a revolting GOP was divided in an acerbic fashion. When they can't even negotiate among themselves, how is negotiation with the democrats possible?? These are some really tough questions I wonder if the GOP can answer.

And the public name calling about calling the Prez a liar. And then pushing him to the brink, with the eyes solely set on the elections and defeating him.

Look, I still think the tea party is alright. They tried to do something which career politicians have not achieved so far. But they went too far
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
4,002 posts, read 3,890,273 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
I have to quote Ariadne from my thread in the investing board.



Quote:
– More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

– Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government’s debt dynamics any time soon.

– The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to ‘AA’ within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures.

It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.

Our opinion is that elected officials remain wary of tackling the structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden in a manner consistent with a ‘AAA’ rating and with ‘AAA’ rated sovereign peers (see Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions,” June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41).

In our view, the difficulty in framing a consensus on fiscal policy weakens the government’s ability to manage public finances and diverts attention from the debate over how to achieve more balanced and dynamic economic growth in an era of fiscal stringency and private-sector deleveraging (ibid).

A new political consensus might (or might not) emerge after the 2012 elections, but we believe that by then, the government debt burden will likely be higher, the needed medium-term fiscal adjustment potentially greater, and the inflection point on the U.S. population’s demographics and other age-related spending drivers closer at hand (see “Global Aging 2011: In The U.S., Going Gray Will Likely Cost Even More Green, Now,” June 21, 2011).
Sounds to me like they expect cuts in entitlements and an increase in taxes .. 2 of the things that I'm totally fine with ..
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