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Old 08-12-2011, 07:14 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,933,813 times
Reputation: 11790

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
It seems quite obvious that no one here understands what QE is in the least.
The American economy is almost at the stage of deflation. One of the only real risks of QE is the tend to produce too much inflation. This really should not be an issue in a sluggish economy like now exists in the country. The process of increasing the money supply by the simple means of the fed buying securities should in all likeyhood stimulate lending and growth. AS a side benefit the rates on government debt should go down. Bankers will be more willing to take bigger risks than low earning government bonds.

For some reason or another many uneducated people seem to both dislike and fear central banks in whatever they propose or do. The central banking system is primarily responsible for the sustained growth the western democracies have experienced for over a century. Without them there would be nothing but total chaos in economics. Things like what happened in Germany during the early 30's would happen all the time. Central banks allow economic development in an organized methodical manner. It's very doubtful that the modern structure of our countries would have been possible without the scientifically and highly technical methods of growing and stabilizing both the value of the currency and the increase in the money supply and the wealth of the nation.
Someone's really swallowed the bankster kool-aid. The private central banks ARE the problem, they are not the solution. they were making the same exact arguments when the U.S. Congress was debating the Federal Reserve Act and guess what? Our large boom and bust cycles started AFTER the Federal Reserve was brought into being and much to the chagrin of those that support a private central bank, the Fed has not stopped any boom and bust cycle that it said it would do
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,366,055 times
Reputation: 2922
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
So you think the average man lives worse than they did in 1913?

QE is not just the act of printing money. The fed issues money in exchange for securities.

The USA risks deflation to a large degree. Just look at the state of RE in the country. It's horrendous.

AS far as all the BS regarding how QE, the stimulus and all the bail outs being failures. Without these attempts at preventing the total collapse the the American economy we would be in a far far worse situation than we are today. It's so easy to look at the situation that exists and say, "It didn't work". Well, it did work and all you have to do is to look to the many situations in economic history where nothing was done to rescue the economy and you will very quickly see that a calamity has been avoided.
Lets face it, we are in different camps and there is nothing you or I could say that would change our minds. I admit I would not budge one inch, the people I follow have been right and have predicted years ago where we are at now. We could go back and forth and it would be futile, I enjoy a good exchange and maybe we can mix it up some other time
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:20 PM
 
2,023 posts, read 5,313,112 times
Reputation: 2004
Lets look at the so called dual mandate of the Federal Reserve. Stable prices and full employment. They seem to be failing spectacularly at both. Look at the relationship of JP Morgan to the Federal Reserve.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,578,968 times
Reputation: 9030
I've felt for many years that the only reason the American dollar was worth anything was because of the wizards at the federal reserve. Let's just look at the facts. You have a country that spends more than it takes in by a huge margin and except for the Clinton years it's been going on for a long time.

No other country in the world could have a negative balance of trade the way the USA does and maintain the value of their currency. The country buys billions more every single month than it sells. It's a real wonder the American economy has done as well as it has with these factors in mind.

It's an amazing fact that your negative trade is now holding up the value of the USD. The Chinese hold so many American dollars that it hurts them real bad if the currency drops and every time it does they, The Chinese buy billions of USD just to hold the value up.

Every single day on the American TV stations it's endless drivel about the economy and what the government has or has not done to help it recover. I'm afraid that it does not matter what the government does, nothing is going to help much until the USA adjusts it's self that it can no longer consume 80% of the world's resources. It can no longer buy way more than it sells, it can no longer consume way more than it produces.

When was the last time you ever heard any of these talking heads state that the American economy and national consumer society just is not sustainable in any way, shape, form of manner. If you think things are bad now, just wait until the rest of the world has no confedence in America's ability to pay or confidence that an American dollar is worth anything any more. It actually could be a blessing in disguise because the USA has the capability to supply it's own markets with it's own production and that is what built America.

I'm afraid though that the international corporations who owe allegience to no country but only to their almighty god of profit will allow the USA to fall much further before they realize they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Even then it could take a protectionist federal government in order to force them to take care of their own first!!!
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:20 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,933,813 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I've felt for many years that the only reason the American dollar was worth anything was because of the wizards at the federal reserve. Let's just look at the facts. You have a country that spends more than it takes in by a huge margin and except for the Clinton years it's been going on for a long time.

No other country in the world could have a negative balance of trade the way the USA does and maintain the value of their currency. The country buys billions more every single month than it sells. It's a real wonder the American economy has done as well as it has with these factors in mind.

It's an amazing fact that your negative trade is now holding up the value of the USD. The Chinese hold so many American dollars that it hurts them real bad if the currency drops and every time it does they, The Chinese buy billions of USD just to hold the value up.

Every single day on the American TV stations it's endless drivel about the economy and what the government has or has not done to help it recover. I'm afraid that it does not matter what the government does, nothing is going to help much until the USA adjusts it's self that it can no longer consume 80% of the world's resources. It can no longer buy way more than it sells, it can no longer consume way more than it produces.

When was the last time you ever heard any of these talking heads state that the American economy and national consumer society just is not sustainable in any way, shape, form of manner. If you think things are bad now, just wait until the rest of the world has no confedence in America's ability to pay or confidence that an American dollar is worth anything any more. It actually could be a blessing in disguise because the USA has the capability to supply it's own markets with it's own production and that is what built America.

I'm afraid though that the international corporations who owe allegience to no country but only to their almighty god of profit will allow the USA to fall much further before they realize they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Even then it could take a protectionist federal government in order to force them to take care of their own first!!!
As the saying goes, "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." -John Paul Getty

China holds so much of our debt that we got them by the groin. I say we put in at least 25% tariffs on Chinese goods and if they threaten a trade war, we'll just say if you do that, we're defaulting on our debt.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,578,968 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
As the saying goes, "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." -John Paul Getty

China holds so much of our debt that we got them by the groin. I say we put in at least 25% tariffs on Chinese goods and if they threaten a trade war, we'll just say if you do that, we're defaulting on our debt.
If the USA defaulted on their debt it would destroy the economy. Don't kid yourself that it wouldn't. I suppose you don't mind emulating the USSR defaulting on the Czarist debts. Their economy still has not recovered and it's 80 years later.

A tariff on the other hand could be a very good thing. Instead of calling it a tarriff though you could call it an environmental charge or a human rights equilization charge. It's an unfair trade advantage when your trading partner pays their workers $1 a day. It will never happen though because their are too many American companies in bed with the COMMUNIST Chinese. Their profits will always trump their patriotism. Always, it's a never changing rule of the universe, LOL. To the money masters class is way above country and when will the people wake up and realize this basic truth. When it's too late and you have allowed them to destroy the country????
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:10 PM
 
1,457 posts, read 2,028,065 times
Reputation: 1407
Obama's gotta get those union votes.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:15 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,933,813 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
If the USA defaulted on their debt it would destroy the economy. Don't kid yourself that it wouldn't. I suppose you don't mind emulating the USSR defaulting on the Czarist debts. Their economy still has not recovered and it's 80 years later.

A tariff on the other hand could be a very good thing. Instead of calling it a tarriff though you could call it an environmental charge or a human rights equilization charge. It's an unfair trade advantage when your trading partner pays their workers $1 a day. It will never happen though because their are too many American companies in bed with the COMMUNIST Chinese. Their profits will always trump their patriotism. Always, it's a never changing rule of the universe, LOL. To the money masters class is way above country and when will the people wake up and realize this basic truth. When it's too late and you have allowed them to destroy the country????
You are right, but unfortunately, they thrive on people that believe the existence of a privately owned central bank is essential to a nation's survival. The U.S. can start printing debt-free U.S. Notes to pay off the national debt and inflation wouldn't happen because you have to gradually raise the reserve requirements of banks to 100% during the course of the year and prescribe into law the maximum amount of money printing the Treasury can engage in. This has been done before when Andrew Jackson and Lincoln were president.

Any country can do this, even yours. Canada can decide to issue it's own debt-free money by your equivalent of the Treasury and the country would be better off
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:32 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,244,020 times
Reputation: 6718
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
It seems quite obvious that no one here understands what QE is in the least.
The American economy is almost at the stage of deflation. One of the only real risks of QE is the tend to produce too much inflation. This really should not be an issue in a sluggish economy like now exists in the country. The process of increasing the money supply by the simple means of the fed buying securities should in all likeyhood stimulate lending and growth. AS a side benefit the rates on government debt should go down. Bankers will be more willing to take bigger risks than low earning government bonds.

For some reason or another many uneducated people seem to both dislike and fear central banks in whatever they propose or do. The central banking system is primarily responsible for the sustained growth the western democracies have experienced for over a century. Without them there would be nothing but total chaos in economics. Things like what happened in Germany during the early 30's would happen all the time. Central banks allow economic development in an organized methodical manner. It's very doubtful that the modern structure of our countries would have been possible without the scientifically and highly technical methods of growing and stabilizing both the value of the currency and the increase in the money supply and the wealth of the nation.
I suggest you read about the history of the Federal Reserve before posting misinformation like this. You do realize the Federal Reserve caused the great depression, and are doing it again, correct?

Untitled Document
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
So you think the average man lives worse than they did in 1913?

QE is not just the act of printing money. The fed issues money in exchange for securities.

The USA risks deflation to a large degree. Just look at the state of RE in the country. It's horrendous.

AS far as all the BS regarding how QE, the stimulus and all the bail outs being failures. Without these attempts at preventing the total collapse the the American economy we would be in a far far worse situation than we are today. It's so easy to look at the situation that exists and say, "It didn't work". Well, it did work and all you have to do is to look to the many situations in economic history where nothing was done to rescue the economy and you will very quickly see that a calamity has been avoided.


The Fed issues paper money which has no value in exchange for government issued securities which will be paid off with more worthless paper money. What is it about that plan that seems prudent?


"Without these attempts at preventing the total collapse the the American economy we would be in a far far worse situation than we are today."

This statement is based on what evidence?


Some people, having been told over and over that FDR's New Deal saved the US economy, actually believe FDR's New Deal saved the economy. This is more an exercise in effective propaganda supercharged by the self-delusion that typically accompanies cognitive dissonance than effective economic policy. The efforts to ease the symptoms of the recession that became the depression became self-defeating and self-propagating thereby creating depression from recession, but people believed otherwise because they wanted to believe otherwise. Eight years into the New Deal, FDR's Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau came clean and admitted that all the tinkering had failed.

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong...somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises...I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started.... And an enormous debt to boot!"

He was very correct that the economic policies and social welfare make-work programs never reduced unemployment to anything near pre-depression levels, even if we want to believe they did. Looking at the unemployment numbers from the era, we might be tempted to conclude that the 1939 17.05% unemployment rate falling to 14.45% in 1940 and then 9.66% in 1941 was a consequence of New Deal policies which had been in place for nearly a decade, but that would be wrong. The military draft reinstated September 16th of 1940 pulled 200,000 able-bodied men out of the civilian work force every month and eventually totaled ten million men. This was the only reason unemployment under FDR finally declined to pre-depression levels.
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