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Old 08-15-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,444,122 times
Reputation: 4185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
you are totally misinformed. The Soviet Union didn't even declare war on Japan until August 11th.
They invaded Manchuria on August 9th. I don't have the stats on how many losses they took, but I doubt it was zero.

ETA: Actually, I do.

9,726 KIA/MIA 24,425 WIA for Soviet Union, China, Mongolia
83,737 KIA for Japan, Manchukuo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...n_of_Manchuria
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:30 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,695,553 times
Reputation: 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
They invaded Manchuria on August 9th. I don't have the stats on how many losses they took, but I doubt it was zero.

ETA: Actually, I do.

9,726 KIA/MIA 24,425 WIA for Soviet Union, China, Mongolia
83,737 KIA for Japan, Manchukuo

Soviet invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
yeah, nice try but machuria is not japan.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,444,122 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
yeah, nice try but machuria is not japan.
So what? The statement you disputed was, a negotiated surrender in July would've saved Soviet lives. I demonstrated that that is indeed the case. Please state how that does not follow, if you can.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,628,504 times
Reputation: 9975
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
They invaded Manchuria on August 9th. I don't have the stats on how many losses they took, but I doubt it was zero.

ETA: Actually, I do.

9,726 KIA/MIA 24,425 WIA for Soviet Union, China, Mongolia
83,737 KIA for Japan, Manchukuo

Soviet invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That has nothing to do with YOUR claim that Japan had already Surrendered in July and we somehow bombed them for spite.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,628,504 times
Reputation: 9975
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
yeah, nice try but machuria is not japan.
And it was the Kwang Tung Army, which often did things without asking Japan. If they had control of the Nuclear Detonation that Japan says it did off Wonsan it was putting nukes into the hands of an Army that did whatever it wanted.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,444,122 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
That has nothing to do with YOUR claim that Japan had already Surrendered in July and we somehow bombed them for spite.
That they offered a surrender in July is well-documented and well-known to anyone who bothers to find out. We refused to consider their offer. Call it spite or callousness or an attempt to intimidate Stalin or anything you want, but those are the facts.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:24 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,695,553 times
Reputation: 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
That they offered a surrender in July is well-documented and well-known to anyone who bothers to find out. We refused to consider their offer. Call it spite or callousness or an attempt to intimidate Stalin or anything you want, but those are the facts.
yeah, they offered a surrender with conditions, but dont forget that they gave FDR an ultimatum at the same time pearl harbor was being bombed. do you really think we were going to settle for anything other than unconditional surrender?
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,628,504 times
Reputation: 9975
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
That they offered a surrender in July is well-documented and well-known to anyone who bothers to find out. We refused to consider their offer. Call it spite or callousness or an attempt to intimidate Stalin or anything you want, but those are the facts.
No they offered to negotiate a peace, we insisted on unconditional surrender. The Germans offered the same and we didn't accept theirs either
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,444,122 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
yeah, they offered a surrender with conditions, but dont forget that they gave FDR an ultimatum at the same time pearl harbor was being bombed. do you really think we were going to settle for anything other than unconditional surrender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
No they offered to negotiate a peace, we insisted on unconditional surrender.
Then it's our responsibility (our leaders' responsibility) that the war continued, and that people on all sides continued to die even more senselessly than those who died before the offer was made.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:44 AM
 
13,631 posts, read 20,700,561 times
Reputation: 7630
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Then it's our responsibility (our leaders' responsibility) that the war continued, and that people on all sides continued to die even more senselessly than those who died before the offer was made.
Translated:

Its the Allies responsibility that they sought a proper conclusion to the war rather than one that would leave Japan capable of regrouping and rearming. A war that Japan started on her own volition.

djacques- You are not making a damn bit of sense.
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