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Old 08-16-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,158,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
I'm from Michigan. Never did I say all Americans are savages, but the ones who not only believe in meddling in foreign affairs but dragging the American people into wars under false pretenses and then spilling every last possible drop of blood in order to win by unconditional surrender, were and are.

Yes, there were savage elements in other Allied countries of course, but they took their lead from, and were influenced by, our savages.
The soviets took their lead from the USA?
I sort of doubt this. east Germany compared to West germany? Nah I dont think so.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,439,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
as opposed to the cease fire treaty of WWI? Which was the direct cause of WWII. Which is also the direct cause of much of the problems in the ME today. European colonialism at its best.
All those wars and all the current ones are based on fraud sold by jackals (politicians) to jackasses (the public). Any intellectually emancipated person wants no part of glorifying any of them.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,794,380 times
Reputation: 775
jacques,

Pearl Harbor was provoked, very much indeed. It's not like the Japanese woke up one day and decided to wage war on the "sleeping giant." This goes without saying, or maybe it doesn't. WWII was the last American "feel-good" war (yet talking to veterans of that conflict, most won't tell you it felt very good).

On the conditions as I remember them from my own study of the events: the Japanese made overtures for surrender in July '45, built on the proviso that they'd retain their emperor. Truman rebuffed it, dropped the bombs, then said okay, you can surrender and keep your emperor. This fact demonstrates that nuking two cities was the result of motivations more than merely unconditional surrender or saving American lives. Even Truman's diary entry at Potsdam stated something like: Stalin will tremble when he sees "manhattan" rise over Japan. This shows Truman's decision had been made as soon when the first test proved successful.

There's so much evidence that supports your claims, I can't figure out why moth disagrees with you.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,439,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The soviets took their lead from the USA?
The Soviets weren't mention in the PP, but they primarily attacked Japan and Manchukuo to fulfill the agreement made at Yalta, so yes, in that case they too were influenced by the USA. They were a special case in general though, in that they were bloodthirsty and imperialistic in their own right, just like Japan and the USA.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:23 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,706,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Acts of defense? Do you know what you are saying man?


Did you know, Britain and France both declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Did you know, Hitler on multiple occasions had attempted to make Britain his ally. That Hitler supposedly "let the British go" at Dunkirk, and attempted to plead again for them to be his ally. That Germany had something called the "Siegfried line" on its borders with France(similar to the Maginot line). And only invaded France as Britain was moving her troops into Northern France.

Britain began the systematic killing of Germany civilians long before the Nazi's began targeting British civilians(which is what those articles I linked would tell you). Even other high-ranking British(such as Chamberlain, who was the prime minister before Winston Churchill) have called their actions in WWII what they were, war crimes.

That isn't exactly the first crimes against humanity that Britain had ever committed against the Germans. Go back to WWI and the blockade of Germany. For eight months after Germany had laid down her arms(effectively making them defenseless), Britain held in place a blockade that intended to starve the German people until they agreed to sign the horrible treaty of Versailles(which most historians will say is one of the primary causes of WWII).

Blockade of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regardless of the horrible nature of the Nazi state. Germany was actually acting in self-defense against Britain. The Germans were employing the typical American policy of a pre-emptive war with England. As they saw the British flood their military into Northern France, for an eventual invasion of Germany.

More importantly, when America entered the war, the allies victory had become a foregone conclusion. Yet for years, Britain would continue to bomb civilians while turning German cities into rubble. And to defend such actions is just stupidity.

If you start accepting the murder of civilians for the purpose of protecting a country or people from attacks or threats. Then you are destroying much of the foundational basis for war crimes. In Libya for instance, the Libyan government is under attack from "rebels" who want to overthrow the government. In a real sense, the two factions in Libya would be similar to the British vs the Germans in WWII. What you are saying by defending Britain, is that Gaddafi has the right to target civilians to "defend his regime". But I don't that is what you are saying.

Why can't you just call a spade a spade?
Perhaps you should stop memorizing "Mein Kampf" and actually read some history! Did you forget the invasion of Poland by Germany? methinks that little endeavor started WWII. Oh, and Poland was allied with Britain & France prior to the GERMAN, repeat, GERMAN invasion!
What a pathetic attempt at revisionist "history" !!
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:27 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,706,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
I think it shows just how LARGE and how extensive our EMPIRE is; Rome had a sizeable Empire for it's time.
Thanks for the great insight on the Roman Empire. The sky is also blue.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,794,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
as opposed to the cease fire treaty of WWI? Which was the direct cause of WWII. Which is also the direct cause of much of the problems in the ME today. European colonialism at its best.
Back to Asia. Japans record of conquest over their neighbors of that era.
If you surrener you can expect to be raped and murdered. Nanking ???
Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
really???? Do you want to make these comparisons?
The soviets
(Rare grim pics) Soviet brutality in occupied Germany (WARNING) - Kaskus - The Largest Indonesian Community (http://www.kaskus.us/showthread.php?t=3499598 - broken link)
I dont think we need to visit Germany's glorious past.
None of the belligerents in WWII had a monopoly on brutality, Americans included. None of the belligerents in WWII had benevolent policies, Americans included!

On point one: the Americans firebombed every major Japanese city during WWII--long before Manhattan. Japanese cities were made of wood, for the most part. Americans used incendiary bombs to attack the civilian population. This was done intentionally with the hopes that the civilian population would appeal to their government for a change in policy and sue for peace. That does not mitigate the violence perpetrated against the Japanese people by the Americans. War is a nasty thing and Americans certainly were nasty like the Germans and the Soviets. In terms of surrender, however, the U.S. had some provisions to any surrendering belligerent that were less harsh than what the Soviets were offering, provided of course, that the surrendering belligerent would retain a pro-capitalist economy.

For an example of what would happen if a belligerent nation did not want to play ball with the capitalist victors (the U.S., UK, France, etc.), see Indochina (Vietnam). The Americans were quite brutal in the war of genocide the U.S. carried out there, at first by French proxy, and later by direct U.S. involvement. By the best estimates, the U.S. slaughtered some 2 million Vietnamese just because Americans wanted to continue western-style colonialism despite the best interests of the people who actually lived in Vietnam.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,794,380 times
Reputation: 775
For all:

Perhaps it'd be beneficial if we all review the primary sources, some of which are located on this site:

Truman Library: The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb Online Research File

I think Truman's diary entries show he was a liar, and the levels of his lies. Wow! Newsflash: politicians lie?!!?!!! Go figure!
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:36 AM
 
13,627 posts, read 20,687,747 times
Reputation: 7630
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
I'm from Michigan. Never did I say all Americans are savages, but the ones who not only believe in meddling in foreign affairs but dragging the American people into wars under false pretenses and then spilling every last possible drop of blood in order to win by unconditional surrender, were and are.

Yes, there were savage elements in other Allied countries of course, but they took their lead from, and were influenced by, our savages.
Michigan, eh? They must love you up there.

Now listen. War is the defeat of one civilization over another by any means necessary. One pummels, bombs, burns, and thrashes until the other screams, "Enough!"

The best way to avoid this is not to go to war- a notion Imperial Japan did not seem to grasp. The next way to avoid this is to do it the other, a notion the Allies were in full grasp of.

Japan started the war. They did so on their own volition with a great quantity of enthusiasm, energy, and no shortage of bloodlust. What part of that do you fail to understand?

The A-Bombs were not used in a vacuum. Truman did not wake up one morning and proclaim, "You know Bess, those goshdarned Japs are just too much. I'm gonna nuke em!" The bombs were weapons used against a viscous enemy. What part of that do you find nebulous?

Japan started the war. We ended it. When you start a war, you best think about what you are doing. You best be prepared for the enemy to fight back and maybe even win. You best be prepared for every possible consequence up to and including, nuclear attack.

That is called taking responsibility- a notion that is so lacking in your statements, that they come off as just the rantings of some misguided fool.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:41 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,706,138 times
Reputation: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtrip75 View Post
Britain attacked Germany, not vice versa.
Please, elaborate, specifically, as to when Great Britain attacked Germany.
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