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Old 08-09-2011, 02:36 PM
 
20,408 posts, read 12,314,159 times
Reputation: 10196

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
And for the hundreth time it was not the money owed that caused the credit downgrade. It was the way it was handled, badly, and for That we can thank the Republicans but mostly theTeaBaggers. Catching on yet?
You act as if cutting spending is only a Republican idea, the Dems also offered cuts, did you foret the end of 2010 entirely, the GOP was not interested, they were too busy posturing after their 2010 wins. Start looking at the entire picture for a change and you would learn that blaming everything on the Liberals is nonesense.
Casper
sorry Casper, your "the way it was handled" is a joke. the downgrade is based on the appearance that we have no national will to deal with the debt and are looking more and more like we will not be able to pay it back.

THAT is what the downgrade was about.

And regardless of what the repbulicans were doing at the end of 2010, democrats had massive majorities and sitting president. they could have done what ever they wanted. including simply letting the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire.

they did not.

you can sit there and spin "the way it was handled" all day long. That dont change a thing. The issue is the existance of the debt and the desire by democrats to SPEND MORE.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,887,293 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyIU29 View Post
Standard and Poor's downgraded us because we did not make enough spending cuts/deficit reductions.

Simple as that. No arguing or wiggle room.
Patently false. Republican spending cuts would see the country burdened with the same rioting that is taking place in Greece, Ireland and Great Britain. But if that's what you really want... go ahead. Run a credible candidate in 2012. The hatchet job that has been done on Obama has made him vulnerable to any Republican without overt religious or moral baggage. Then him (her) and the Tea Partiers can obliterate the middle class and create the two class Third World superpower of their dreams. Don't blame Obama if it doesn't go well for the country during the transition.

H
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,684 posts, read 44,444,073 times
Reputation: 13584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Damn Skippy they wouldn't cut that much. As we speak, London is burning, so is Manchester... Birmingham... Liverpool. Britain's Tea Party nutbaggers got in power and tried to cut their way to solvency. And the dispossesed victims of austerity in the U.K. at least had socialized medicine. American's are shooting themselves. How long would it take with a gutted Federal Budget before they turned outward and started burning $#*+?
Do you honestly think all the welfare entitlement spending is sustainable? Especially when the dependent class is growing exponentially (the birth rate of those ON public assistance is 3 times that of those NOT on public assistance)?

What on earth is the basis for that opinion?

Quote:
The downgrade was going to happen even if a better deal had been struck because the sideshow leading up to the deal made it clear that America's future finances are very much in doubt.
The downgrade happened because of TOO MUCH SPENDING!

S&P has already warned that if the meager, inadequate spending cuts don't materialize, or spending and borrowing increases, they'll downgrade AGAIN.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,887,293 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
And regardless of what the repbulicans were doing at the end of 2010, democrats had massive majorities and sitting president. they could have done what ever they wanted. including simply letting the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire.
Oh good Lord, do you have any shame at all? No, they could not simply do whatever they wanted. Criminy. You have really never heard of a filibuster? This is why we have been downgraded. We share the debt but do not share ideology. Bad for our perceived ability to repay. What if we devolve into Civil War? Not possible? You know that and I know that but implying that we could given all the evidence we have provided... ... doesn't your bank use every opportunity you give them, to raise your interest rate? Most do. Bounce a check. Bang. Two points. Late payment. Bang. 10 points. Thanks to Obama they can't go up to 33%APR like they used to. And really, they shouldn't. If you are a bad risk you shouldn't get credit. Not the way they play... if you are a bad risk you get lots of credit... at subprime rates. America, welcome (back) to the trailer park. You should feel right at home. In your hearts you never really left.

H
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,887,293 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Do you honestly think all the welfare entitlement spending is sustainable? Especially when the dependent class is growing exponentially (the birth rate of those ON public assistance is 3 times that of those NOT on public assistance)?
In the short term the spending is sustainable. The portion of the dependent class that is growing is Roman Catholic. Did no one think that it was a bad idea to open the border with a Roman Catholic country? Nevertheless it is possible for America to be as America has always been for much longer than alarmists like yourself want to believe. What isn't sustainable is: defense spending, corporate welfare, corporate entitlements and... tax breaks and loopholes for the wealthy. The welfare budget pales against the defense budget or the exploration and drilling incentives for Big Oil. Get some perspective.

H
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,660,084 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
And for the hundreth time it was not the money owed that caused the credit downgrade. It was the way it was handled, badly, and for That we can thank the Republicans but mostly theTeaBaggers. Catching on yet?
You act as if cutting spending is only a Republican idea, the Dems also offered cuts, did you foret the end of 2010 entirely, the GOP was not interested, they were too busy posturing after their 2010 wins. Start looking at the entire picture for a change and you would learn that blaming everything on the Liberals is nonesense.
Casper
You are quite skilled at spinning a story.

The only connection between the downgrade and the Tea Party is that the Tea Party failed to convince Obama to make substantive spending cuts. So yes, they failed, and that led to the downgrade. If the Tea Party had been successful at getting agreement to make substantial cuts rather than these trivial ones, maybe we could have avoided a downgrade.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:17 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,373,731 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
In the short term the spending is sustainable.

H
No it's not and you've been told repeatedly the path Obama and the democrats have taken us on isn't sustainable.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:26 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,684 posts, read 44,444,073 times
Reputation: 13584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
In the short term the spending is sustainable.
FALSE. If it were sustainable, we wouldn't be deficit spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The portion of the dependent class that is growing is Roman Catholic.
FALSE.
Quote:
In 2009, over one-third of black children (35.7%) and nearly one-third Hispanic children (33.1%) were living in poverty.
A lost decade: Poverty and income trends paint a bleak picture for working families

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
What isn't sustainable is: defense spending
Defense spending has a Constitutional mandate; social welfare spending does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
...corporate welfare, corporate entitlements and... tax breaks and loopholes for the wealthy.
There is no corporate welfare or corporate entitlements, just less confiscation of the corporate earnings that typically go to the shareholders which are the pension funds, etc.

The tax breaks are available to all with the exception of the ones that are phased out at higher incomes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The welfare budget pales against the defense budget or the exploration and drilling incentives for Big Oil. Get some perspective.
No, it does not. Cite some proof if you believe otherwise.

Also, as already mentioned, defense spending has a Constitutional mandate; social welfare spending does not.

Your post is FULL of fail. Where are you getting such utterly ridiculous misinformation? And why are you so gullibly believing it without verification?
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,887,293 times
Reputation: 10027
The black population is not growing. At all. The Hispanic population is Roman Catholic and is growing. Where have I misled anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Defense spending has a Constitutional mandate; social welfare spending does not.
The Constitution, like the Bible, is a document frozen in time. I am willing to bet that the Constitution falls short of establishing exact amounts and/or percentages of GDP that should be allocated for defense. Hence there is latitude for adjustment. Downward.


People like you have a big problem. You hate the poor but you don't have the stomach to put them down. Really put them down. Like stray dogs or cats. Abandoned animals are humanely euthanized but dispossessed American workers have to flail around until they do the deed themselves or provoke police into doing it or just languishing in tent cities or homeless camps. This cannot go on, nor can it be escalated. Pull 4 Trillion out of America's long term spending budget and the Republican administration in charge will have to set up gas ovens or build floating prisons to house the many millions of homeless that will result. You don't want to pay for it.

H
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,877,038 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
sorry Casper, your "the way it was handled" is a joke. the downgrade is based on the appearance that we have no national will to deal with the debt and are looking more and more like we will not be able to pay it back.

THAT is what the downgrade was about.

And regardless of what the repbulicans were doing at the end of 2010, democrats had massive majorities and sitting president. they could have done what ever they wanted. including simply letting the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire.

they did not.

you can sit there and spin "the way it was handled" all day long. That dont change a thing. The issue is the existance of the debt and the desire by democrats to SPEND MORE.
I am not trying to change anything, I leave that to the right, twisting and distorting is their game, I am only saying what is, and most people including many Repubs know the truth, you are NOT going to like 2012.
Casper
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