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Old 08-13-2007, 02:18 PM
 
Location: VA
784 posts, read 4,173,162 times
Reputation: 1069

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All the experts say that once we leave Iraq the country will fall into chaos with massive bloodshed and killing. OK, then if that is the case, then logically we can never leave. A few years ago we were told that once the Iraq troops were trained sometime in 2007, we would be able to leave. Now no one is really talking about training the troops anymore. It seems like a lost cause. Instead they just say we will stay and fight until the job is done.

When will the job be done?

If a Republican wins the White House would he keep us in Iraq for the foreseeable future?

Does anyone really believe that in a few years the troops will be trained and the government stable enough for us to leave? If it has not happened yet why will it happen in 2009-2010.. or when ever?
==============
Republicans: When will we leave Iraq and how?
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:29 PM
 
1,237 posts, read 2,124,245 times
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And just why on earth would any good, decent God fearing neocon ever want to leave Iraq? I mean think about it. We are freeing these poor poor people from a murderous regime of worldwide terra. If we left, the evildoers would just rush right in and start strapping bomb vests to all sixth grade kids, and of course send them over here to murder all of us heathen non believers. We have to stay and give these peace loving people a McDonald's. The terrorists hate freedom, so we have to stay.

Now the real deal is that leaving only Iraq will save nothing. GTFO of the mid-east altogether is the answer.

Edited to add, the election of Dr Ron Paul will end this nonsense. Not in one week, for short attention span America, but it will end it.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Status: "His 'alternative facts' go marching on!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
51,710 posts, read 36,669,861 times
Reputation: 24768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
All the experts say that once we leave Iraq the country will fall into chaos with massive bloodshed and killing. OK, then if that is the case, then logically we can never leave. A few years ago we were told that once the Iraq troops were trained sometime in 2007, we would be able to leave. Now no one is really talking about training the troops anymore. It seems like a lost cause. Instead they just say we will stay and fight until the job is done.

And the same man who gave gowing reports in the past about how well the training of Iraqi troops was progressing will soon be giving another progress report. Even as I write this many are putting on their rose-colored glasses and looking forward to being fooled again.

Who knows? Maybe the slackers in the Iraqi parliament will even get back from vacation in time to listen.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:25 PM
 
5,763 posts, read 9,864,367 times
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The fundamental problem is that Iraq is still a political and sectarian mess. That has not been sorted. US troops can cause the violence to ebb now and then, for a period of time, but that's not really what we mean by 'success,' is it? 'Success' - real success, not just an alleviation of the worst-case scenario - would mean that the Sunnis would not become sponsors of militant groups either inside or outside of Iraq. It would mean that the Shiite portion of Iraq would not just turn their territory into an Iranian vassal state. And it would mean that tensions between Kurds and both the Shiites and Sunnis are settled enough to avoid violence, AND to placate the anxious Turks.

Even then, that would be more of a Pyhrric victory than a real one, since you'd still have to make the case that our outcomes in Iraq were worth more than a trillion dollars, in addition to however many bodies we've racked up by the time of departure. Also, the government would need to be stable enough to hold up years AFTER our departure - otherwise, we'd end up with another Vietnam scenario of revolution in the capital and embassy personnel being evacuated.

So, talking about 'winning' Iraq, or achieving 'victory,' is more complicated than most people realize.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:10 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 3,522,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
All the experts say that once we leave Iraq the country will fall into chaos with massive bloodshed and killing.
Look where the 'experts' opinions have gotten us so far ?


If you / me were as much of an 'expert' at our job, would we
still have it

We are prolonging and perpetuating a crime against humanity by
staying there.

We leave, riots and bloodshed ensue...FOX news gets a lot of
good footage, another Saddam type dictator floats to the top
of the cesspool, Middle East type order resumes and all is well.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:40 PM
 
6,757 posts, read 10,031,401 times
Reputation: 2991
I don't think that a Republican or a Democrat will get us out. The Republicans still think there is a way to win although they won't give clear definitions as to how we will know the victory has been won, which means we will never reach that point. The Democrats lied that they would get us out of there if they were elected, and now most of them realize there is going to be a post war bloodshed similar to Vietnam if we withdraw, so they are scratching their heads wondering what is the best thing to say to get votes in the coming elections.

We have 2 parties that stink, both opposing each other on military actions. The Dems to Bush, and the 90's Republicans to Clinton. The circus will continue unless America realizes that the puppet box is stocked deep on both sides and we need to look for someone who isn't tied to the same strings. Currently Ron Paul is the only one that stands out to me, and I could only pray that we could see one or 2 more candidates step forward with more common sense than the big 3 each side is trying to sell us right now.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:44 PM
 
1,463 posts, read 5,473,338 times
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Sorry its their country...If they wanna squabble and fight let em...
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:53 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 3,522,645 times
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http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1647996,00.html (broken link)

Can it get much worse than this ?
Yep....heres yer democracy. Have fun.


Mission Accomplished !
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:37 PM
 
433 posts, read 1,371,094 times
Reputation: 145
I don't want to see more bloodshed, but unfrotunetly, It's kinda arrogant to think "America" is all of the sudden going to have the answer to hundereds of years of violence, reglious domiance and economic destitution. Saudi Arabia, which has all the money in the world, gave us the vast majority of the 9/11 hiackers.


I think we should try to see what kind of actions could make us seem better in the world, but right now, I really don't think our image is going to improve.

Also, people forget, it's not just "us". Look at Britian and France. I hate to say it, but maybe they really do hate westerners....
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:55 PM
 
Location: WA State USA
79 posts, read 223,194 times
Reputation: 66
Neither party will pull out.
This debate which has been driven by politics is absurd because when all is said and done congress supports the war.

Most Dems don't really want us to leave, not yet anyway, there's too much at stake.

We've been in Korea for 50 years, ah, hello.........

We will be in the Middle east for that long too.
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