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Old 08-09-2011, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,471,329 times
Reputation: 9618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I think its very clear that the two party system is not working. The parties are dividing America more and more with each political cycle and this divided government will lead to the demise of our country. Lets vote for people not parties. And while we are at it, get rid of the electoral college and decide our elections with the popular vote!
uhm what 'two' party system

you mean the liberal party and the democratic party... or the green party and the workers party....or the conservative party and the republican party....or the socialist and the communist party...or the right to life party..or the libitarian party...or the independant party???
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
How do you plan on getting rid of the party system? I remind you, the political parties are PRIVATE organizations, they are not government organizations. They serve a government function, but they are not part of the government.
Political parties being private would only help make it easier, and provide all the more reason to kick out the party system. But yes, getting rid of the party system wouldn't be easy. In fact, was the original intent at the founding of this country, to have political parties? It was people's desire to form a union for a common cause, to push for ideologies that created the "Federalists", and consequently, the opposition formed and operated under anti-Federalists (democratic-republic party).

Let me ask you... why do we need political parties?
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,442,152 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I think its very clear that the two party system is not working. The parties are dividing America more and more with each political cycle and this divided government will lead to the demise of our country. Lets vote for people not parties. And while we are at it, get rid of the electoral college and decide our elections with the popular vote!
So you are proposing that we abolish our First Amendment right to "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances?" Because that is the ONLY way you will ever abolish all political parties. I did not think so.

The Electoral College gives the State legislatures, not the people, the power to determine the President of the United States. The popular vote for President was created by the States in 1824, and can be abolished just as easily. No State is going to ratify any proposed amendment that would abolish their constitutional authority to determine who the President will be.

There has been a proposed amendment to the US Constitution that would abolish the Electoral College which has been introduced during every session of Congress since the 1970s. It has never made it to the floor in either house for a vote, and it never will.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:49 AM
 
4,070 posts, read 5,603,960 times
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Make all private political donations illegal. We'd all be better off. It would end the two party system pretty fast.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,442,152 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevergoingback View Post
Make all private political donations illegal. We'd all be better off. It would end the two party system pretty fast.
No, actually, it would not. First, you would have to abolish the First Amendment because the Supreme Court has already held that political contributions is a matter of "free speech." Second, after eliminating the First Amendment, you would have to enact laws that prevent more than two people from getting together to discuss politics.

As long as the First Amendment exists, there will always be political parties.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:01 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,029,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
No, actually, it would not. First, you would have to abolish the First Amendment because the Supreme Court has already held that political contributions is a matter of "free speech." Second, after eliminating the First Amendment, you would have to enact laws that prevent more than two people from getting together to discuss politics.

As long as the First Amendment exists, there will always be political parties.
Wait, are we talking about private donations or private donations? I'm guessing Nevergoingback meant donations that are secret. All donations should be made public imo.

Frankly I think we should eliminate money from politics somehow altogether, in order to give people who can't afford millions of dollars a fair chance. As it is, those with money simply buy their legislation through donations- i.e. BRIBERY. Govt sanctioned bribery.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,442,152 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Wait, are we talking about private donations or private donations? I'm guessing Nevergoingback meant donations that are secret. All donations should be made public imo.

Frankly I think we should eliminate money from politics somehow altogether, in order to give people who can't afford millions of dollars a fair chance. As it is, those with money simply buy their legislation through donations- i.e. BRIBERY. Govt sanctioned bribery.
All donations to candidates running for public office are made public. What a private citizen contributes to a private organization, political or otherwise, is none of the government's business.

Since money is associated with "free speech", there is no eliminating money from politics unless you first eliminate free speech. Good luck with that.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:24 PM
 
1,019 posts, read 589,784 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I think its very clear that the two party system is not working. The parties are dividing America more and more with each political cycle and this divided government will lead to the demise of our country. Lets vote for people not parties. And while we are at it, get rid of the electoral college and decide our elections with the popular vote!
First of all, there is no such thing as a two-party system, for several reasons. First of all, we have more than two parties, and, secondl, there is no "system" that defines, authorizes etc., parties. It has evolved to two major players, because politics, like virtually everything in life, is a competative "event", and two is the most-natural number for competition. If you have a multitude of parties, you could have a candidate win with only a small slice of voters supporting him. With only two candidates of significance, the winner will have at least 50% plus 1 of the voters supporting him or her.



Getting rid of electoral colleges is a step towards pure democracy, with is an unmitigated disaster, and something the Founders very, very much wanted to avoid, for all the obvious reasons - reasons you seem to be oblivious to.



We need to go back to having each state government appoint the two Senators, as originally crafted by the Founders. The Senate represented the States, while the House represented the People.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:25 PM
 
1,019 posts, read 589,784 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevergoingback View Post
Make all private political donations illegal. We'd all be better off. It would end the two party system pretty fast.
You seem to have a political death-wish.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,442,152 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTrang View Post
We need to go back to having each state government appoint the two Senators, as originally crafted by the Founders. The Senate represented the States, while the House represented the People.
Actually, prior to the 17th Amendment, it was the Governors who made the Senate appointments, and the State legislature that confirmed or rejected the appointment. This gave Governors the power to effectively "sell" Senate seats to the highest bidder (like Gov. Blagojevich) and led to massive amounts of corruption at the state level. Which is what prompted the 17th Amendment in the first place.

I am not certain that repealing the 17th Amendment would improve anything. It could very well make things even worse.
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