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That's rich, the federal government telling the Cherokee nation what treaties to observe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole
What a dilemma for politicians. Which oppressed minority group should they support?
Being part Cherokee, and knowing a little about the 'Trail of Tears' and the federal government and their record of treaty observations, I think the Cherokee are on the high ground.
Taking people's citizenship away is pretty severe. Maybe the US should do the same with Indians, forcing them to chose either citizenship
Regarding Europeans, I think they mostly took their slaves from among themselves, i.e. they had a very low social class with few rights, some of them literally belonging to others, so in effect they were slaves, even if they were not called that way.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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People of every race and ethnicity have held slaves of every race and ethnicity they conquered or kidnapped from. Blacks in Africa hold white and black slaves even to this day, especially the Muslims since the Koran endorses and regulates slavery of kafirs. Wealthy blacks (and Indians of course) sometimes held white indentured servants or black slaves in pre-Emancipation America. Indians were known to hold white, black, and Indian slaves through kidnappings and warfare. Just so we're clear on that - until a coupla hundred years ago everyone was doing it! Even the Bible had messages purportedly from God that allowed parents to sell their children off in slavery under certain circumstances.
What's interesting to me is the very large percentage of Cherokees that voted to get rid of blacks - what was it, 76%? There must not have been much interbreeding in all those years for them to be so intolerant, which is unusual. Perhaps the Cherokee blacks moved away from traditional indian lifestyles and values, and more toward mainstream American urban black culture, whose lifestyles are both feared and annoying to the older people of many ethnicities - at least in the modern era.
In other words, if Cherokee blacks have become like African American blacks, maybe the parents of traditional Cherokee children are worried that they will become like African Americans.
Interesting. The larger issue here is the place that blacks have in this country as a result of slavery. A hierarachy emerged from slavery that placed blacks on the bottom, apparently even lower than the "lowly" native American. There is no way in hell that black people should be in position anywhere in this country where they are dependent on native Americans in this manner. This is absolutely absurd. Steps must be taken to make blacks whole in this country.
I think the biggest problem that plagues this country is the shameful history of its treatment of black people and continued racism and mistreatment of blacks. This treatment and the hierarchy that continues to negatively impact blacks has had a devastating effect on blacks, contributing to greater self-destructive behavior, higher criminal tendencies, lower educational achievement focus, greater distractions from the hardships that racism imposes, and the continuing struggle to make a life while being given less consideration as a matter of course. Black people are an incredibly talented, gifted, proud, and noble people of great resolve, strength, and dignity. Time to honor these people and elevate them, so they can take their proper place, and help this country progress.
I think reparations are in order. The indifference of those who currently and indirectly benefit from the evil that devastated successive generations of descendants of slaves, must be ignored. Time to make black people in this country whole. This should include financial compensation of such a magnitude that it immunes blacks from the effects of racism and white privilege. It should include educational incentives that enable every black person to obtain the highest of degrees in every field from the best universities in the world. It should include programs to help those blacks whose lives have been decimated by racism, transition into a life of high educational achievement, great wealth, and enlightenment. It should include a mechanism to provides qualified blacks with a majority share of every major corporation in this country. So on and so forth.
Absolutely ludicrous this notion that a native American tribe can exclude blacks from its ranks, subjecting them to further hardships or reduced benefits.
Absolutely ludicrous this notion that a native American tribe can exclude blacks from its ranks, subjecting them to further hardships or reduced benefits.
Firstly, this issue is noone's business but the tribe and (former) tribe members affected.
Secondly, ever consider the reverse to be true? Black America has been moving upward in recent decades, while American Indians, especially on the reservations, continue to experience the most hardships of any ethnic group.
People of every race and ethnicity have held slaves of every race and ethnicity they conquered or kidnapped from. Blacks in Africa hold white and black slaves even to this day, especially the Muslims since the Koran endorses and regulates slavery of kafirs. Wealthy blacks (and Indians of course) sometimes held white indentured servants or black slaves in pre-Emancipation America. Indians were known to hold white, black, and Indian slaves through kidnappings and warfare. Just so we're clear on that - until a coupla hundred years ago everyone was doing it! Even the Bible had messages purportedly from God that allowed parents to sell their children off in slavery under certain circumstances.
What's interesting to me is the very large percentage of Cherokees that voted to get rid of blacks - what was it, 76%? There must not have been much interbreeding in all those years for them to be so intolerant, which is unusual. Perhaps the Cherokee blacks moved away from traditional indian lifestyles and values, and more toward mainstream American urban black culture, whose lifestyles are both feared and annoying to the older people of many ethnicities - at least in the modern era.
In other words, if Cherokee blacks have become like African American blacks, maybe the parents of traditional Cherokee children are worried that they will become like African Americans.
Makes me wonder if Cherokees themselves are still like that
Didn't they give any reasons as to why they want to get rid of them now? Blaming the blacks based on mere speculation seems a bit unfair to me...
Indians are far from being angels, just like any other ethnic group.
What's interesting to me is the very large percentage of Cherokees that voted to get rid of blacks - what was it, 76%? There must not have been much interbreeding in all those years for them to be so intolerant, which is unusual. Perhaps the Cherokee blacks moved away from traditional indian lifestyles and values, and more toward mainstream American urban black culture, whose lifestyles are both feared and annoying to the older people of many ethnicities - at least in the modern era.
In other words, if Cherokee blacks have become like African American blacks, maybe the parents of traditional Cherokee children are worried that they will become like African Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510
Firstly, this issue is noone's business but the tribe and (former) tribe members affected.
Secondly, ever consider the reverse to be true? Black America has been moving upward in recent decades, while American Indians, especially on the reservations, continue to experience the most hardships of any ethnic group.
I have a dream that one day, down on the reservation, with its vicious racists, with its tribal leader having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there on the reservation, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little Native American boys and Native American girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.
This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the reservation with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My tribe, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the Indian's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."
And if the Cherokee nation is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!
Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!
But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and Native American men, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
Seems they are consistant. Whatever their reasons, it's their choice.
If they really were an independent nation, one might argue that way. But they are not, in some way they are a part of the US, which raises the question if such a bluntly racist (against all members not of Cherokee blood) behavior is OK.
I think if those tribes want to have their own, ethnicity-based (which is an illusion anyway) nations, they should not only enjoy the privileges and rights associated with such a nation, but also pay the price for it, namely be stripped of their US citizenship with all the consequences.
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Reparations are needed to make blacks whole
There is no way in hell that black people should be in position anywhere in this country where they are dependent on native Americans in this manner. This is absolutely absurd. Steps must be taken to make blacks whole in this country.
