Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:36 PM
 
3,393 posts, read 3,997,604 times
Reputation: 9310

Advertisements

"
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,615 posts, read 44,334,570 times
Reputation: 13545
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Elmer T. Peterson paraphrasing Alexis de Tocqueville in the December 9th, 1951 edition of The Daily Oklahoman

Alexis de Tocqueville recognized the problem nearly two centuries ago. We're seeing it play out now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,957 posts, read 8,348,709 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by btsilver View Post
Are you guys serious? You call poor people parasites and you call poor people willing to stay on the dole for some government money. Then out the other side of your mouth you spew crap like "the democrats are hurting business and people can't find jobs. Its all the democrats fault!" So which is it? are poor people parasites or are they unfortunate casualties of a bad economy?
I say they're unfortunate casualties. IF you weren't smart enough to chose a profession that is recession proof, well, then either you're a complete idiot, or have no ability to adapt.

I don't get why people say it's hard to find jobs, because it's not, at least not in my field. The problem is that people aren't willing to give up anything or sacrifice to take a job that will pay their bills. If I got offered a good job 10,000 miles on the other side of the planet, I'd take it. You gotta go where the grass is greener.

Not all poor people are parasites, but a lot of them are. You know of whom I speak.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:55 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,933,874 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What would you call it when people can vote themselves freebies? So much, in fact, that they're bankrupting our nation, causing so much deficit spending that our country's credit rating has been downgraded?
What do I call it when people can vote for what they want? Democracy. Your "freebies" means nothing to me unless you want to point to specific things that people have voted in favor of that you take issue with, and why that justifies the removal of poor people's voting rights.

On that note, do you realize the repercussions of removing millions of people's right to vote? How do you think society would change if the poor couldn't vote? Do you think it would be a society where poor people have a better chance of succeeding? Keep in mind that this is a nation where the number of poor people is growing while wealth becomes more concentrated at the top.

I think you and I both know that it would just lead to the elimination of welfare, social security, medicare, medicaid, the defunding of public education, and the privatization of everything that isn't bolted down. Great for everyone that has money, terrible for everyone that's poor.

And then what do you know, since poor people can't vote, they can't vote for things that help them stop being poor. Suddenly, more people are poor, and then they can't vote, and so on, and so on. Where does it stop?

This is an argument only a true enemy of democracy would forward, this is the definition of oligarchy. I bet if more poor people voted the way you wanted, this wouldn't be an issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,695 posts, read 3,031,981 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
I wonder if Vadum is nearly as concerned with the huge numbers of middle-class people who don't vote? People do a lot of talking about the margin of victory for Obama in the last Presidential election--but take a look at the numbers of votes cast. 6.5 million to 5.5 million. That's twelve million votes...in a country with a population of more than 275 million. Never mind poor people; hardly anyone is actually getting up off their behinds and casting votes any more.
Where in the world are you finding these numbers?
The final vote was 67 million to 58 million.
THat sure is a heck of a lot more than 12 million!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:13 PM
 
Location: NC
4,100 posts, read 4,498,575 times
Reputation: 1372
smh
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,356,384 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
That would be unconstitutional.

We should eliminate the "D" "R" and "I" and any other party identification from the voter box.

That way, people would have to vote on the issues, not a party.

We would have a much politically smarter population.

The dems would never win another national election.
That is essentially what this is all about. Republicans don't like the prospect of losing an election so they want to take away the vote from anyone who they don't think will vote their way. That is why some have suggested exceptions to the taxpayer rule like people getting SS. If we are going to do that we might as well be like Syria and just allow one party on the ballot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:19 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,743,223 times
Reputation: 14345
Just a comment, but racists used this argument against black people voting. That they made poor choices and didn't have the knowledge or experience to make the "right" choices. And when women demanded the vote, sexists countered that women didn't have the knowledge or experience to vote wisely. That women should be satisfied with the influence they had, or did not have, with their husbands and how he voted.

Now, we are seeing people trying to suggest that all poor people make poor choices and so should be denied the vote. It's an illogical assumption that all poor people make poor choices. There is also no foundation to the assertion that poor people are voting for whomever promises them the most freebies.

Poor people, like everyone else, vote for a variety of reasons, and a wide range of criteria play into that vote.

I do think it's terrible that there are people like this columnist who feels so empowered by the current political atmosphere that he boldly suggests discriminating against people based on their incomes. What happens when he doesn't get the desired result? Does he then advocate raising the poverty level to exclude even more voters? To what lengths would he go in order to get his desired partisan result?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,615 posts, read 44,334,570 times
Reputation: 13545
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
I think you and I both know that it would just lead to the elimination of welfare, social security, medicare, medicaid, the defunding of public education, and the privatization of everything that isn't bolted down. Great for everyone that has money, terrible for everyone that's poor.
By golly, you've hit on the incentive for every able-bodied person to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually support themselves and their families in a responsible self-sufficient manner. GASP!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:29 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,588,466 times
Reputation: 11187
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
By golly, you've hit on the incentive for every able-bodied person to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually support themselves and their families in a responsible self-sufficient manner. GASP!
You act as if there is a job for everyone who wants one -- fantasy land. If 100 percent employment was guaranteed then your arguments might be valid. But then if we had 100 percent guaranteed employment, we'd have communism, wouldn't we?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top