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The 1st amendment explicitly protects our freedom of association. So the danger of businesses being shut down by the government does not extend to political or other organizations.
A business is an association of trade. There is no authority to regulate an individuals business as such, only interstate commerce, yet one could make the argument that the government is overstepping its authority concerning this as well when it was established in 1887 and this was a major issue concerning the civil war when the north began to object to the south's trade without other countries due to the price gouging of the north (due to the drought the south was suffering from).
Point is, the establishment of such things are questionable in their authority, especially when this clause was initially created to eliminate rate discrimination for travel and communication organizations. It being later expanded in control and power is simply an example of ever increasing infringement on individual liberties and their works.
You can separate an individual from a business. They are two separate entities, one merely a legal one. But you're correct, rights were never meant to be for objects, just persons.
Stating it over and over again, will not make your position correct. Especially when you refuse to deal with the conflicts in such a claim as has been presented to you. /boggle
A business is an association of trade. There is no authority to regulate an individuals business as such, only interstate commerce, yet one could make the argument that the government is overstepping its authority concerning this as well when it was established in 1887 and this was a major issue concerning the civil war when the north began to object to the south's trade without other countries due to the price gouging of the north (due to the drought the south was suffering from).
Point is, the establishment of such things are questionable in their authority, especially when this clause was initially created to eliminate rate discrimination for travel and communication organizations. It being later expanded in control and power is simply an example of ever increasing infringement on individual liberties and their works.
Once again, this is the state of Ohio, not the federal government - states have more authority to regulate under their general police power than does the federal government, so the issue of interstate commerce does not come into play.
A business is an association of trade. There is no authority to regulate an individuals business as such, only interstate commerce, yet one could make the argument that the government is overstepping its authority...
Which government? State of Ohio? There is no need to complain about interstate commerce here... this is about a state law, which any "states rights" person should learn to love.
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Originally Posted by Nomander
Stating it over and over again, will not make your position correct. Especially when you refuse to deal with the conflicts in such a claim as has been presented to you. /boggle
Correct. But I'm not merely stating, I'm questioning what you keep stating over and over again.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 09-21-2011 at 12:55 PM..
Being subjected to a room full of second hand smoke (whether a patron or an employee) is not a medical tobacco use. The smoking ban at the heart of this thread is about smoking and violating property rights.
Smoke away peeps.
When smoking causes breathing impaired individuals to not be able to utilize or patronize establishments, the owners have crossed the line into discrimination.
First of all, I was responding to a very specific point made by someone other than you. If you're going to respond to a reply of mine written to somebody else, have enough courtesy to at least know what the heck you're responding to.
Second, your last sentence in the above quote is completely false. Period. It's been covered (at length) already in this thread, so I won't get into it with you. You're wrong. Sorry.
Smoking bans are good for business, but that won't stop people from fighting it anyway.
If you had read my post more closely, you would have understood that the bar owners -- not the bar and grill owners -- are seeing a decrease in sales.
I looked up one of the "bars" in the article you linked and it turned out to be a bar and grill serving a large variety of food -- not unlike a TGIFridays or one of those spots which serves up FOOD in addition to having a bar.
Gator Jakes Bar Grill Patio - Menu (http://www.gatorjakes.net/menu.nxg - broken link)
Another establishment mentioned in the same article sells food and does catering: Roger's Roost
The figures are deceiving -- mix bars and restaurants together to make it appear that all are doing well, when in reality, only one segment saw an increase.
Bar owners -- the guy who serves nothing but alcohol and perhaps some popcorn -- have seen a decrease in sales.
First of all, I was responding to a very specific point made by someone other than you. If you're going to respond to a reply of mine written to somebody else, have enough courtesy to at least know what the heck you're responding to.
Second, your last sentence in the above quote is completely false. Period. It's been covered (at length) already in this thread, so I won't get into it with you. You're wrong. Sorry.
First of all, when you quote someone's reply you're responding to them; if you're responding to a very specific point, you should make that clear and have enough courtesy to at least know what the heck you're responding to.
You can not segregate an individual from their works. Liberties do not protect someone as if they were simply an object, it extends to their works and deeds.
Frank was pointing out that the reasoning of your position escapes the very elements of liberty of the individual, there by claiming that the works of the individual is not protected as the individual is. Using such a process, as he pointed out allows infringements indirectly.
A business is not a created work of an individual, and are not afforded protections of the individual. If this is an issue, write up a Business Bill of Rights, and submit it for amendment to the Constitution.
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If one can not have a business ( a profession, trade, etc...) without the consent of the government, then one is not free to pursue happiness as they see fit
You can pursue happiness through other avenues, or by not conducting business illegally.
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as the government is dictating to the individual what they can and can not have and under what conditions they may have it.
Incorrect. Individuals have protect freedoms, businesses do not. If you want to operate a business, the business must adhere to the guidelines and laws presented. Failure to do so closes the business. A Business has no enumerator rights except those granted by the ruling power.
If the business changes hands, it still has to abide by the same laws and regulations. No where is an individual violated.
You're falsely equating businesses with human people.
[quote=Nomander;20974037]A business is an association of trade. You are associated to the business. You cannot have your rights violated for associating with the business. The business, as a legal entity, does not have rights extending from your association to it. Entirely separate entities.
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Point is, the establishment of such things are questionable in their authority, especially when this clause was initially created to eliminate rate discrimination for travel and communication organizations. It being later expanded in control and power is simply an example of ever increasing infringement on individual liberties and their works.
And a business is not an individual, nor the created works of an individual. It's a business, and entirely separate legal entity. The Mona Lisa is not a separate legal entity. Hanks Bar and Grille is.
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