Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquering Wind
So, Jesus says that you must keep the commandments, all of them, and one of those commandments is that you must use the death penalty on those who commit murder.
Nowhere does Jesus say that you shouldn't execute a murderer.[Those were my comments]
This is complete nonsense. Where is the commandment to kill those who have killed. Please remeber Matthew 26:52. He that lives by the sword will surely die by the sword.
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You have confused "kill" with "murder." My guess is that you cannot comprehend the meaning of "slay" either.
Murder is most heinous. It is done with malice aforethought, with premeditation, and for profit, personal benefit or personal gain.
Killing is not the same thing as murder. The fact that your discombobulated English language and your Göbbeling Media constantly confused the two does not alter the fact that in other languages, particularly in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic the words "murder" and "kill" cannot be used interchangeably, because they have entirely different meanings and different connotations. For the same reason, "slay" cannot be used interchangeably with "murder" or "kill" since the meaning and connotation of "slay" is done with authority. Soldiers do not murder or kill, they slay the enemy.
Perhaps to advance your rather weak knowledge of your religion, you should get a copy of the
BHS and read it. It's quite expensive, but worth it since it is superior to the grotesque "King James Vision" (of course the
BHS only contains Old Testament works).
There is no commandment to kill those who have killed. Quite the contrary. Those who have killed are to be ostracized for a period of 7 years. However, those who have committed murder are to be slain. It says so here:
Exodus 21:12 Whoever strikes someone so that he dies must surely be put to death. 21:13 But if he does not do it with premeditation, but it happens by accident, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee. 21:14 But if a man willfully attacks his neighbor to kill him cunningly, you will take him even from my altar that he may die.
Again, someone who commits murder is to be executed (slain), but someone who kills is permitted to flee to a place, presumably for several reasons, 1) to prevent retribution or revenge and 2) as punishment since fleeing means leaving your roots, family and support system and being without them for a period of time.
That would make sense, since prison systems did not exist at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquering Wind
This is crazy talk. Where did Jesus preach for violence? Jesus was angry when he flipped the the tables on the money changers, he did not call for them to be beat or killed.
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Flipping over the tables is an inherently
violent act, not an act of pacifism. I dare say that as a student in high school, if Jesus had flipped over the tables in the lunch room he would have been arrested and expelled from school, or at least suspended. An act of pacifism would be Jesus chaining himself to the entrance to the Temple to bar or block people from entering the Temple for the purpose of exchanging money.That is what a pacifist would do.
In my life, I've run into many pacifists. I had someone chain themselves to one of my vehicles thinking it was transporting a Pershing II nuclear warhead (it wasn't a warhead it was the 1st Stage Engine). I was talking to him while the Polizei cut the chains and removed him. I thought it was amusing. There was no harm done, other than we were delayed a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquering Wind
Please cite one scripture where Jesus called for someones death for sin.
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Again, Jesus says you must follow the commandments. All of them. All 693 of them (collectively, all 693 Commandments are referred to as the
Mitzvah). The 10 Commandments are not the only commandments, rather they are simply the first 10 in a long list of commandments that beings at Exodus 20:1 and continues to the end of Exodus 23. More commandments are contained in Leviticus and Numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvsteve
A few posters above have said that Jesus was not a pacifist.
Originally Posted by Matt. 5:38-40
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
That's about as pacifist as pacifism (nonviolence) can possibly be. You can't get any more pacifist than that. |
That is hyperbole.
A "slap in the face" meant the same thing 2,000 years ago as it means today: an insult.
What Jesus is saying is that if someone insults you, ignore it rather than fire back with an insult.
I would refer everyone to this once again:
John 18:36 Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”
Jesus did not preach non-violence, as is very clear here, plus the fact that he over-turned the tables of the money-changers in the Temple, which was a violent act in and of itself.
Pacifists do not fight, and those are not the words of a pacifist. I would also direct people's attention to "
Render unto Caesar...."
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bah (He thinks) ok so that didnt work
, these little buggers just love killing each other too much..
