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Why are we supposed to distrust degreed scientists and place our faith in someone ranting on a message board? For that matter why are supposed to trust him over history that tells us that vaccine work? Do some people think smallpox is a myth we invented to scare small children?
Why trust ANYONE other than your own curiosity and common sense? Obviously you can read and write and you have a PC.
Here's the thing, now you are AWARE that vaccines are controversial. NOW you can look at all the pretty labels and studies from many sources right here on the interwebby thingy.
NOW you have to either push it to the back of your mind, or go on getting 36 jabs for your babies and toddlers without giving it a howdy-doo, or look into those ingredients, side effects, and lab/manufacturing/transport/cold chain conditions, etc., consider the source and use your common sense to come to an informed decision.
Yes, there were some cases with complications I am sure (none that I know of personally while having attended a sizable school district), but I, and just about every other kid at the time, had measles (x2, rubella and rubeola), mumps (both sides), and chicken pox, lived to tell the tale, and have enjoyed a natural immunity from these diseases as an adult.
I never had polio, but probably ate just enough dirt at my mud paddy tea parties to confer immunity.
I just tried to look up the source reservoir of polio and haven't found much yet, except that there is not much "wild" polio remaining globally. But just what the reservoir is for this "wild" virus (I assume as opposed to vaccine-caused polio) I have yet to find- other than the human GI tract- but how/where is it acquired in the first place?
Any way, it is interesting to look into these things, especially being something like vaccines that we have to deal with regularly, have to force on others who have no say in the matter, and have to live with any bad consequences- sometimes forever.
I beg your pardon ... it has everything to do with the discussion, and was a direct response to your inaccurate assertion that vaccination strengthens the immune system ... which brings into question anything else you think you know about the subject.
Why? Because big pharma is the source They fund the "science" ... they lobby the congress and have the FDA in their pockets .... and they want desperately to have mandatory vaccines across the board ... it's incrementalism. HPV is just the latest venture.
Most parents already believe that childhood vaccines are mandatory, and that they have no choice. And frequently, when they inquire, that is exactly what local governments and school authorities tell them too! The reality is, it's a lie ... but if authorities can convince the masses that something is mandatory ... then what's the difference? It's mandatory for all intent and purposes to those so convinced.
Although there is a rational and logical answer to that question, it's totally irrelevant, really. If I accuse you of stealing my wallet .... you need only prove your innocence ... you don't need to identify who actually did steal it in order to exonerate yourself.
The pertinent issue is that the vaccine could not have had the claimed success because it used a totally different virus as it's active component, and that was the case for about 100 years. And this is the foundation of the vaccination fraud. Vaccine is derived from the Latin word for cow, and the insane history of Smallpox vaccination in Europe is one of the most insidious and well kept secrets of medicine. Far from being the eradicator ... mandatory vaccination of Dr. Jenner's putrid potion of cow pus caused massive increases of deaths compared to areas that went unvaccinated, and led to both it's institutionalized use as a mandatory medical intervention, as well as widespread revolt, and the eventual end of mandatory vaccinations in Europe. The harm inflicted was so severe ... and the proof of the vaccination being the primary cause of that harm so great ... the British were forced to cancel the mandatory vaccinations.
Even today ... modern medical science continues to proclaim that "pox type" viruses are similar enough to each other, that vaccinating with one pox virus provides immunological protection from all of the other pox viruses. Of course, no where else in the world of virology does this appear to be true, since even the same strain of other viruses will render a vaccine useless with only a slight antigenic drift ... but with pox viruses, it's one size fits all. Why? Because THEY HAVE TO MAKE SUCH ABSURD CLAIMS .... THEY HAVE NO CHOICE .... otherwise the myth of vaccines ... and the mother of all vaccine technology falls flat on it's fraudulent face.
The foundation of immunology requires a near perfect match between vaccine and virus, and this explains why you need so many vaccines ... each vaccine must use the exact strain of virus in order to offer protection. That's why you need a flu shot EVERY YEAR, and still there is no guarantee of protection .... as each strain is a different variant of influenza and requires an EXACT MATCH. This crapola of "Pox viruses being so similar ... one works on all of the others too" nonsense is pure bovine maneur .. pun intended.
The most obvious question I would ask is why are you Pro-Vaxxers" so frigging gullible?
Then you need to apply yourself to the subject matter at hand. The label "Conspiracy Theorist" is a total cop out for dismissing anything outside one's own awareness and has no place in a debate that includes facts and evidence. This is a tactical ploy to discourage critical analysis, and belays your claim that you question 'everything". By taking such an approach, you seem only willing to question "everything" that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
Employ those research skills ... frankly, I'm surprised anyone could be unaware of the VIOXX catastrophe and the egregious conduct of Merck that was exposed. It was national headline news .. and the evidence of fraud was so overwhelming .... and the results of that fraud included thousands of deaths ... Merck executives should have been criminally prosecuted for manslaughter at the very least, and murder charges would not be out-of-line, in my opinion.
Just remember ... Google is your friend .... but if you are a "conspiracy theorist" like me Startpage is a much better friend because friends don't spy on you and collect personal data
Search VIOXX Crime ... or VIOXX fraud ... and be prepared to read. Here's a sample:
Modern civilization? Electricity? Perhaps the invention of refrigeration? The improvements in hygiene and sanitation .. and a better awareness of viruses and germs and how disease spreads?
There are too many issues to go into too much detail ... but it wasn't that long ago that populated towns and cities were virtual sewers ... animal feces everywhere ... people trudging through the streets, walking in animal feces, tracking that inside ... lack of refrigeration .. and personal hygiene ... poor sanitation ... no indoor plumbing or facilities ... the list goes on. These situations were breeding grounds for disease ... and, we see this exact same thing occurring TODAY .... in underdeveloped countries, where the incident rates of disease is profoundly higher than in developed nations with modern sanitation and electricity and clean drinking water.
And we see the same backwards response in such examples as the World Health Organization dispensing vaccines for various contaminated water born diseases ... they do NOTHING to provide water filtration so these people will have clean water to drink .... they let them continue to drink the filth, and pump them with vaccines instead. And the diseases are not going away ... nothing is being "eradicated" by vaccines. These people need clean water, clean food, electricity and refrigeration ... and then the diseases will start to disappear.
I'll tell you what is putting our children in danger .... an indescribable lack of common sense and gullibility that allows for this blind acceptance of cockamamie stories grown ups should be able to identify as pure BS inside 30 seconds. Even crazier is the dogged determination so many show in their insistence on remaining poorly informed in spite of having others outline the matter in painful detail, with irrefutable evidence to provide them the truth, so that they can fulfill their primary responsibility as parents .... which is to protect their damned children from those who see those children as nothing more than another source of revenue.
I cannot conceive of the mentality demonstrated by so many who offer up their children as sacrifice on the alter of this cult of pharmacological madness, without so much as a question about safety and health entering their minds. Injecting infants with cocktails of poisons .... allowing their toddlers to be injected with vaccines by the dozens ..... autism rates skyrocketing ... chronic diseases which used to only afflict adults are also off the charts now for children. Arthritis, asthma, diabetes, cancer, leukemia, the list goes on.
No ... the greatest threat children face today is a system so corrupt, and parents so dumbed down ... these innocent children are defenseless and totally at the mercy of the merciless who have no more compassion for human children than they do for the defensless animals they strap down and grow tumors in.
I'll tell you this ... people who can perform the kinds of torture they do on thousands of helpless animals in the name of medical science, don't give an F about you or your kids, and you can take that to the bank. Compassion and empathy are not things you can flip on and off like a lightswitch. You either have it or you don't. And beware the ones who don't.
Thanks for all of your thoughtful posts on this subject. You spend a lot of time on it and I, for one, see anything that might make people stop, think, and be more discriminatory regarding vaccines, a public service.
Still can't rep you, but would if I could. And thanks for the reference to Startpage!
1. There are certainly cancers that are more immune related than others. Two prime examples of cancer that can be "killed" by the immune system are melanoma and renal cell. In fact, the older use of interleukin and interferon was specifically designed to enhance the immune system for this purpose. Prior to the use of chemotherapeutics, melanomas were infiltrated with tuberculosis bacillus in an attempt to kill the tumor cells.
2. Prime examples of cancers which do not appear to have a strong immune mediated response would be tumors of the CNS (astrocytoma, glioblastoma) and leukemias.
3. Polio and small pox were eradicated by vaccination. Diptheria, mumps, measles, and pertussis were nearly non-existent in the US while I was in training. Now, due to people not vaccinating their children, there has been a resurgence in these diseases. I had personally never seen a child with any of the above four- now these diseases are real entities again.
4. Nearly all vaccines are made out of the US now. Why? Litigation from crackpots. This has put the nation in a vunerable position when the next pandemic/epidemic occurs.
5. Profits on most vaccines are low and they are considered "loss leaders" by the pharmaceutical industry.
6. Immunizations ENHANCE, not diminish, the ability of the body to fight disease. How does this happen? The antigen of the vaccine is attacked by antibodies produced by "B" cells. These antibodies will have more than a specific affinity for one componant of the antigen and can mediate an immune response to other antigens with these markers. Further, an immunologic phenomenon called a "hapten" occurs when, in conjunction with "T" cells, an immune response is mounted to a "contaminant" on the antigen, such that an immune response will occur only in the presense of that contaminant as well. This is how "allergies" to penicillin occurred with early versions of penicillin which were "grown" from fermentation baths, rather than snythesized as they are today.
There are certainly a large number of medicines which reduce an immune response in an effort to fight disease. Prime examples are the modern antibodies to alpha tumor necrosis factor that are used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and psoriatic arthritis. Steroids reduce in inflammatory response through phospholipase A and have been used to limit an immune response in a variety of conditions, including asthma and COPD.
I think you need to study immunology a little more and then perhaps you would not be so adverse to the concept of immunization, which has saved millions of lives. When was the last time you saw someone die of polio, small pox, diptheria, mumps, pertussis, or measles? Well.................. that used to be non existent. Now it may become more common, with more and more people refusing vaccinations.
PS- Your enthusiasm for this issue and your efforts to educate yourself in this area is appreciated and should be lauded. However, if you use internet sites, only use those ".org" sites which are informational (although not peer reviewed) and may provide a better source of factual information. Again, keep in mind that even the ".org" sites are not a substitute for the peer reviewed literature. NEJM usually hits the "big" issues regarding immunizations and vaccinations and that would be an excellent general medical journal to gain objective information that is highly peer reviewed from an excellent editorial board.
Thanks for that! As a biochemist who loves immunology and virology it's nice to hear a summary of the facts. The bolded part was really right up my alley and shows how an immune response works.
I'm making no such insinuation. Actually, I think it is safe say that the National Cancer Institute knows a lot more about cancer than I do. They are just bald faced liars ... that's what I'm saying ... just to clarify.
Oh so now the National Institute Cancer knows better about cancer but they lie about. How convenient how you can keep moving the goal posts.
only four with endemic polio by 2006: Afghanistan, India, Nigeria, and Pakistan.
Until polio is eradicated, however, all countries remain at risk for imported polio cases--especially those countries with low vaccination rates. In 2009, increased circulation of wild polioviruses in Nigeria led to imported cases and outbreaks in 12 countries in West Central Africa, three of which (in Mali, Mauritania, and Sierra Leone) continued into this year.
Recently the reintroduction of polio into the European region, which has been polio-free since 2002, has also become a concern. . . . As of November 1, 458 laboratory-confirmed cases of wild poliovirus type 1 had been reported in Tajikistan, with 26 deaths, of whom 15 were less than five years old.
"What should I avoid before or after receiving FluMist?
For at least 21 days after receiving FluMist, avoid close contact with anyone who has a weak immune system caused by disease (such as cancer, HIV, or AIDS), or by certain medicines such as steroids, cancer chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. A person with a weak immune system can become ill if they have close contact with you after you have recently received a an influenza vaccine.
For at least 2 weeks after receiving FluMist, avoid using antiviral medications that are normally used to treat flu symptoms, such as oseltamivir (Tamiflu) or zanamivir (Relenza)."
Someone mentioned above that the flu cannot be passed to others post vaccine. The above notes that in the case of FluMist, it can be. In fact, the bolded sentence above does not even specify "FluMist", it just says "influenza vaccine".
Thanks for that! As a biochemist who loves immunology and virology it's nice to hear a summary of the facts. The bolded part was really right up my alley and shows how an immune response works.
I wouldn't say vaccines "enhance immunity" in general. They may, in some cases where the vaccine is effective, enhance immunity to that SPECIFIC antigen. And I would think that this might be somewhat taxing to the immune system as a whole- having all these different entities to "identify" and be "prepared" for.
While the immune sytem is busy reacting to some useless flu antigen that has already mutated and moved out of the spectrum, perhaps cancer cells or other serious diseases are taking hold? Remember there are "immune response enhancing" agents such as squalene, chemicals, and viruses in vaccines as well as other foreign ingredients that the body has to handle.
if you want to opt-out of mandatory vaccinations then take your kid to home school... I will not risk my child's health because of idiocy...
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They fund the "science" ... they lobby the congress and have the FDA in their pockets .... and they want desperately to have mandatory vaccines across the board ... it's incrementalism. HPV is just the latest venture.
