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Indeed I am, people should be at least a tiny bit troubled about vaccines.
"How safe is the MMR vaccine?
The drug company that makes the MMR vaccine publishes an extensive list of warnings, contraindications, and adverse reactions associated with this triple shot. These may be found in the vaccine package insert available from any doctor giving MMR, and in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR) at the library.(8,9)
The following afflictions affecting nearly every body system -- blood, lymphatic, digestive, cardiovascular, immune, nervous, respiratory, and sensory -- have been reported following receipt of the MMR shot: encephalitis, encephalopathy, neurological disorders, seizure disorders, convulsions, learning disabilities, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), demyelination of the nerve sheaths, Guillain-Barre' syndrome (paralysis), muscle incoordination, deafness, panniculitis, vasculitis, optic neuritis (including partial or total blindness), retinitis, otitis media, bronchial spasms, fever, headache, joint pain, arthritis (acute and chronic), transverse myelitis, thrombocytopenia (blood clotting disorders and spontaneous bleeding), anaphylaxis (severe allergic reactions), lymphadenopathy, leukocytosis, pneumonitis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, erythema multiforme, urticaria, pancreatitis, parotitis, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, meningitis, diabetes, autism, immune system disorders, and death (Figure 49).(10,11)"
I was thinking before I looked this up how absolutely terrible it would have been to have had measles, mumps, and rubella ALL at the same time! Never heard of that happening, though. I also commented on the natural and long lasting, immunity from having the actual diseases........
so here's what's most troubling as to risks vs. benefits:
"How effective is the MMR vaccine?
Prior to the introduction of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines, thousands of cases of measles, mumps and rubella occurred every year. Today, these numbers are greatly reduced. However, unlike the natural diseases, the MMR vaccine does not confer permanent immunity. For example, measles epidemics regularly occur in vaccinated populations. According to the CDC, "measles transmission has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95 percent of cases have a history of vaccination."(13) Outbreaks of mumps and rubella often occur in vaccinated people as well.(14) Evidently, immunity is short-lived. The Journal of the America Medical Association published data showing that antibody levels after rubella vaccinations fell to half their high point within four years.(15) The medical literature contains many examples of MMR vaccine failures. Thus, people who receive MMR may still be susceptible to the three diseases.
In a study conducted by scientists from the Direct Health 2000 clinic in Eltham, South London, England, half of all children vaccinated with MMR were found to have "zero or very low immunity" against measles and mumps. According to Dr. Sarah Dean, who oversaw the study, "This means there could be a lot of children who think they have got the umbrella protection" yet remain at risk. Dean believes that young children's immune systems cannot cope with more than one virus at a time.(16) Yet, a second dose of MMR was added to immunization schedules." MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) Vaccines: Adverse Reactions. Thinktwice!
Look at the possible side effects above...and then look at the efficacy. Are the risks worth having zero to low immunity at worst......that lasts about 4 years at best? You DO NOT want to get these diseases as a teen or an adult!!!
Anyone can post anything without the proper context, especially someone without knowledge of medicine. They HAVE to list every side effect. Do you not understand statistics and the human body? If millions of people are getting vaccinated, there are going to a handful of people that have adverse reactions. You didn't post that part. Everyone's body is different, we don't all metabolism every chemically equally. Vaccines aren't 100% full proof until we have the knowledge and technology to tailor make vaccines based on someones genetic information. Have you read the side effects listed for many prescribed medications?
Furthermore, you seriously posted a link to the "Global Vaccine Institute"? Really, what credentials does this internet institution have? They sure seem unbiased, no agenda, and well informed... but hey their agenda sounds good to you right?
I notice how you ignored my earlier posts. Convenient eh?
Why trust ANYONE other than your own curiosity and common sense? Obviously you can read and write and you have a PC.
Here's the thing, now you are AWARE that vaccines are controversial. NOW you can look at all the pretty labels and studies from many sources right here on the interwebby thingy.
Outside of the world of quackery vaccines really aren't controversial.
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NOW you have to either push it to the back of your mind, or go on getting 36 jabs for your babies and toddlers without giving it a howdy-doo, or look into those ingredients, side effects, and lab/manufacturing/transport/cold chain conditions, etc., consider the source and use your common sense to come to an informed decision.
Hmm.
Awful disease or a few pinpricks?
Yeah I'll go with common sense.
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Yes, there were some cases with complications I am sure (none that I know of personally while having attended a sizable school district), but I, and just about every other kid at the time, had measles (x2, rubella and rubeola), mumps (both sides), and chicken pox, lived to tell the tale, and have enjoyed a natural immunity from these diseases as an adult.
There's nothing enjoyable about mumps, measles or chicken pox.
Just because YOU managed to survive without side effects does not mean side effects do not exist.
FYI, in case you haven't noticed: DEAD PEOPLE CAN'T TALK. So the people who did not walk away unscathed from all those awful diseases did not live to tell the tale.
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I never had polio, but probably ate just enough dirt at my mud paddy tea parties to confer immunity.
I just tried to look up the source reservoir of polio and haven't found much yet, except that there is not much "wild" polio remaining globally. But just what the reservoir is for this "wild" virus (I assume as opposed to vaccine-caused polio) I have yet to find- other than the human GI tract- but how/where is it acquired in the first place?
Any way, it is interesting to look into these things, especially being something like vaccines that we have to deal with regularly, have to force on others who have no say in the matter, and have to live with any bad consequences- sometimes forever.
Measles is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet.
If you get it, you basically force it on anyone who hasn't been vaccinated.
When come back bring facts. Real ones, not nonsensical assertions you read on whale to.
"What should I avoid before or after receiving FluMist?
For at least 21 days after receiving FluMist, avoid close contact with anyone who has a weak immune system caused by disease (such as cancer, HIV, or AIDS), or by certain medicines such as steroids, cancer chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. A person with a weak immune system can become ill if they have close contact with you after you have recently received a an influenza vaccine.
For at least 2 weeks after receiving FluMist, avoid using antiviral medications that are normally used to treat flu symptoms, such as oseltamivir (Tamiflu) or zanamivir (Relenza)."
Someone mentioned above that the flu cannot be passed to others post vaccine. The above notes that in the case of FluMist, it can be. In fact, the bolded sentence above does not even specify "FluMist", it just says "influenza vaccine".
A friend of mine was told to avoid close contact with anyone for several days after he got the Herpes Zoster (Shingles) vaccine.
I am now wondering by exactly what mechanism it is that a killed virus can confer immunity to it's live counterpart....more reading to do.
Well, wonder no more. Both flu mist and shingles vaccine are live virus vaccines. You either misunderstood your friend who was supposedly told to avoid contact with anyone for several days, or he misunderstood.
It is safe to be around infants and young children, pregnant women, or people with weakened immune systems after you get the shingles vaccine. There is no documentation of a person getting chickenpox from someone who has received the shingles vaccine (which contains varicella zoster virus).
Drugs.com is a commercial website that is not particularly accurate for the flu mist. Here is what the CDC has to say about antivirals:
If a person is taking an influenza antiviral drug (including Tamiflu® or Relenza®, then the nasal spray flu vaccine should not be given until 48 hours after the last dose of the influenza antiviral medication was given. If a person takes antiviral drugs within two weeks of getting the nasal spray flu vaccine, that person should get revaccinated. (The antiviral drugs will have killed the vaccine viruses that are supposed to cause the immune response against those viruses.) Antiviral drugs can be taken with the inactivated (i.e. killed) flu vaccine.
Here's what they say about giving flu to others:
Can people receiving the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®) pass the vaccine viruses to others?
In clinical studies, transmission of vaccine viruses to close contacts has occurred only rarely. The current estimated risk of getting infected with vaccine virus after close contact with a person vaccinated with the nasal-spray flu vaccine is low (0.6%-2.4%). Because the viruses are weakened, infection is unlikely to result in influenza illness symptoms since the vaccine viruses have not been shown to mutate into typical or naturally occurring influenza viruses.
About being around immunocompromised people:
Can contacts of people with weakened immune systems get the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®)?
People who are in contact with others with severely weakened immune systems when they are being cared for in a protective environment (for example, people with hematopoietic stem cell transplants), should not get LAIV (FluMist®). People who have contact with others with lesser degrees of immunnosuppression (for example, people with diabetes, people with asthma taking corticosteroids, or people infected with HIV) can get LAIV (FluMist®).
Anyone can post anything without the proper context, especially someone without knowledge of medicine. They HAVE to list every side effect. Do you not understand statistics and the human body? If millions of people are getting vaccinated, there are going to a handful of people that have adverse reactions. You didn't post that part. Everyone's body is different, we don't all metabolism every chemically equally. Vaccines aren't 100% full proof until we have the knowledge and technology to tailor make vaccines based on someones genetic information. Have you read the side effects listed for many prescribed medications?
Furthermore, you seriously posted a link to the "Global Vaccine Institute"? Really, what credentials does this internet institution have? They sure seem unbiased, no agenda, and well informed... but hey their agenda sounds good to you right?
I notice how you ignored my earlier posts. Convenient eh?
Sorry if I inadvertantly dissed you, Mr./Ms. Thin Skin. It is hard to believe that I haven't read every post on this thread, nevertheless, I have not. Out of context?? I posted full headings and full paragraphs and a link to the entire site. You expect a whole site to be posted on the forum, perhaps? Just how desperate are you to find something to pick at rather than address the grim reality of all those side effects?
From my post on MMR:
These may be found in the vaccine package insert available from any doctor giving MMR, and in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR) at the library.(8,9)
and
According to the CDC, "measles transmission has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95 percent of cases have a history of vaccination."(13) Outbreaks of mumps and rubella often occur in vaccinated people as well.(14) Evidently, immunity is short-lived. The Journal of the America Medical Association published data showing that antibody levels after rubella vaccinations fell to half their high point within four years.(15) The medical literature contains many examples of MMR vaccine failures. Thus, people who receive MMR may still be susceptible to the three diseases.
So, if you don't like a secondary source, go to the product label, the CDC, JAMA, the UK studies, and the PDR.
Furthermore, I am retired from the medical profession. One job I had was running a clinic that gave injections as one of it's functions- including immunizations such as flu shots and travel immunizations. Back then I drank the vaccine kool-aid just like most people.
Later in my career I was director of a satellite agency for a nationwide corporation, one facet of which, was to hold yearly flu clinics. The flu clinic at your local grocery store or senior center or drug store is managed by someone like me and I was meticulous indeed- in spite of some obstacles out of my control.
We also provided travel immunizations for a huge profit. The flu shot clinics were also hugely profitable for the company. It was this experience that led me to have far more curiosity about vaccines, what's really in them, what the adverse effects are, how they are transported and handled, and what the customer is actually getting.
And that brings us to the "cold chain" ...............or do you really want to go there?
Sorry if I inadvertantly dissed you, Mr./Ms. Thin Skin. It is hard to believe that I haven't read every post on this thread, nevertheless, I have not. Out of context?? I posted full headings and full paragraphs and a link to the entire site. You expect a whole site to be posted on the forum, perhaps? Just how desperate are you to find something to pick at rather than address the grim reality of all those side effects?
From my post on MMR:
These may be found in the vaccine package insert available from any doctor giving MMR, and in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR) at the library.(8,9)
and
According to the CDC, "measles transmission has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95 percent of cases have a history of vaccination."(13) Outbreaks of mumps and rubella often occur in vaccinated people as well.(14) Evidently, immunity is short-lived. The Journal of the America Medical Association published data showing that antibody levels after rubella vaccinations fell to half their high point within four years.(15) The medical literature contains many examples of MMR vaccine failures. Thus, people who receive MMR may still be susceptible to the three diseases.
You're missing the point.
A large percentage of any population is vaccinated against measles, mumps and rubella. That still ignores the fact that if you aren't, you're far more likely to get those diseases.
Yes, some people may still be susceptible. Most people aren't. The way to keep those diseases away is vaccinate against them.
Your "grim reality" of side effects is pure nonsense. Most people do not get side effects from the MMR shot. They get them from getting measles, mumps or rubella. Measles has a roughly 40% hospitalization rate even in previously healthy people. Mumps also causes all kinds of complications including infertility. If you catch rubella in the womb, you have a huge chance of emerging with serious sensory or mental impairment.
The vaccines are far safer than the illnesses they prevent. This is a proven fact that is not in dispute.
Don't know if he knows for sure where he's coming from.
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Originally Posted by ergohead
Sorry, I was sure you were wearing your blinders and deafers.
It's ok. I guess it's too much to ask for people to follow along a conversation and properly address a response.... and not have someone try and stick up follow a fellow poster who happens to share ideology... and coincidentally not understand what's going on... and then make a snarky remark
I beg your pardon ... it has everything to do with the discussion, and was a direct response to your inaccurate assertion that vaccination strengthens the immune system ... which brings into question anything else you think you know about the subject.
Why? Because big pharma is the source They fund the "science" ... they lobby the congress and have the FDA in their pockets .... and they want desperately to have mandatory vaccines across the board ... it's incrementalism. HPV is just the latest venture.
Most parents already believe that childhood vaccines are mandatory, and that they have no choice. And frequently, when they inquire, that is exactly what local governments and school authorities tell them too! The reality is, it's a lie ... but if authorities can convince the masses that something is mandatory ... then what's the difference? It's mandatory for all intent and purposes to those so convinced.
Although there is a rational and logical answer to that question, it's totally irrelevant, really. If I accuse you of stealing my wallet .... you need only prove your innocence ... you don't need to identify who actually did steal it in order to exonerate yourself.
The pertinent issue is that the vaccine could not have had the claimed success because it used a totally different virus as it's active component, and that was the case for about 100 years. And this is the foundation of the vaccination fraud. Vaccine is derived from the Latin word for cow, and the insane history of Smallpox vaccination in Europe is one of the most insidious and well kept secrets of medicine. Far from being the eradicator ... mandatory vaccination of Dr. Jenner's putrid potion of cow pus caused massive increases of deaths compared to areas that went unvaccinated, and led to both it's institutionalized use as a mandatory medical intervention, as well as widespread revolt, and the eventual end of mandatory vaccinations in Europe. The harm inflicted was so severe ... and the proof of the vaccination being the primary cause of that harm so great ... the British were forced to cancel the mandatory vaccinations.
Even today ... modern medical science continues to proclaim that "pox type" viruses are similar enough to each other, that vaccinating with one pox virus provides immunological protection from all of the other pox viruses. Of course, no where else in the world of virology does this appear to be true, since even the same strain of other viruses will render a vaccine useless with only a slight antigenic drift ... but with pox viruses, it's one size fits all. Why? Because THEY HAVE TO MAKE SUCH ABSURD CLAIMS .... THEY HAVE NO CHOICE .... otherwise the myth of vaccines ... and the mother of all vaccine technology falls flat on it's fraudulent face.
The foundation of immunology requires a near perfect match between vaccine and virus, and this explains why you need so many vaccines ... each vaccine must use the exact strain of virus in order to offer protection. That's why you need a flu shot EVERY YEAR, and still there is no guarantee of protection .... as each strain is a different variant of influenza and requires an EXACT MATCH. This crapola of "Pox viruses being so similar ... one works on all of the others too" nonsense is pure bovine maneur .. pun intended.
The most obvious question I would ask is why are you Pro-Vaxxers" so frigging gullible?
Then you need to apply yourself to the subject matter at hand. The label "Conspiracy Theorist" is a total cop out for dismissing anything outside one's own awareness and has no place in a debate that includes facts and evidence. This is a tactical ploy to discourage critical analysis, and belays your claim that you question 'everything". By taking such an approach, you seem only willing to question "everything" that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
Employ those research skills ... frankly, I'm surprised anyone could be unaware of the VIOXX catastrophe and the egregious conduct of Merck that was exposed. It was national headline news .. and the evidence of fraud was so overwhelming .... and the results of that fraud included thousands of deaths ... Merck executives should have been criminally prosecuted for manslaughter at the very least, and murder charges would not be out-of-line, in my opinion.
Just remember ... Google is your friend .... but if you are a "conspiracy theorist" like me Startpage is a much better friend because friends don't spy on you and collect personal data
Search VIOXX Crime ... or VIOXX fraud ... and be prepared to read. Here's a sample:
Modern civilization? Electricity? Perhaps the invention of refrigeration? The improvements in hygiene and sanitation .. and a better awareness of viruses and germs and how disease spreads?
There are too many issues to go into too much detail ... but it wasn't that long ago that populated towns and cities were virtual sewers ... animal feces everywhere ... people trudging through the streets, walking in animal feces, tracking that inside ... lack of refrigeration .. and personal hygiene ... poor sanitation ... no indoor plumbing or facilities ... the list goes on. These situations were breeding grounds for disease ... and, we see this exact same thing occurring TODAY .... in underdeveloped countries, where the incident rates of disease is profoundly higher than in developed nations with modern sanitation and electricity and clean drinking water.
And we see the same backwards response in such examples as the World Health Organization dispensing vaccines for various contaminated water born diseases ... they do NOTHING to provide water filtration so these people will have clean water to drink .... they let them continue to drink the filth, and pump them with vaccines instead. And the diseases are not going away ... nothing is being "eradicated" by vaccines. These people need clean water, clean food, electricity and refrigeration ... and then the diseases will start to disappear.
I'll tell you what is putting our children in danger .... an indescribable lack of common sense and gullibility that allows for this blind acceptance of cockamamie stories grown ups should be able to identify as pure BS inside 30 seconds. Even crazier is the dogged determination so many show in their insistence on remaining poorly informed in spite of having others outline the matter in painful detail, with irrefutable evidence to provide them the truth, so that they can fulfill their primary responsibility as parents .... which is to protect their damned children from those who see those children as nothing more than another source of revenue.
I cannot conceive of the mentality demonstrated by so many who offer up their children as sacrifice on the alter of this cult of pharmacological madness, without so much as a question about safety and health entering their minds. Injecting infants with cocktails of poisons .... allowing their toddlers to be injected with vaccines by the dozens ..... autism rates skyrocketing ... chronic diseases which used to only afflict adults are also off the charts now for children. Arthritis, asthma, diabetes, cancer, leukemia, the list goes on.
No ... the greatest threat children face today is a system so corrupt, and parents so dumbed down ... these innocent children are defenseless and totally at the mercy of the merciless who have no more compassion for human children than they do for the defensless animals they strap down and grow tumors in.
I'll tell you this ... people who can perform the kinds of torture they do on thousands of helpless animals in the name of medical science, don't give an F about you or your kids, and you can take that to the bank. Compassion and empathy are not things you can flip on and off like a lightswitch. You either have it or you don't. And beware the ones who don't.
Thank you for mentioning the horrors they put animals thru, to perpetuate this industry. I had been contemplating a monthly donation to PCRM.org. Your post helped me make up my mind.
Your posts provide such a wealth of information, much appreciated. PCRM: Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
Sorry if I inadvertantly dissed you, Mr./Ms. Thin Skin. It is hard to believe that I haven't read every post on this thread, nevertheless, I have not. Out of context?? I posted full headings and full paragraphs and a link to the entire site. You expect a whole site to be posted on the forum, perhaps? Just how desperate are you to find something to pick at rather than address the grim reality of all those side effects?
From my post on MMR:
These may be found in the vaccine package insert available from any doctor giving MMR, and in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR) at the library.(8,9)
and
According to the CDC, "measles transmission has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95 percent of cases have a history of vaccination."(13) Outbreaks of mumps and rubella often occur in vaccinated people as well.(14) Evidently, immunity is short-lived. The Journal of the America Medical Association published data showing that antibody levels after rubella vaccinations fell to half their high point within four years.(15) The medical literature contains many examples of MMR vaccine failures. Thus, people who receive MMR may still be susceptible to the three diseases.
So, if you don't like a secondary source, go to the product label, the CDC, JAMA, the UK studies, and the PDR.
Furthermore, I am retired from the medical profession. One job I had was running a clinic that gave injections as one of it's functions- including immunizations such as flu shots and travel immunizations. Back then I drank the vaccine kool-aid just like most people.
Later in my career I was director of a satellite agency for a nationwide corporation, one facet of which, was to hold yearly flu clinics. The flu clinic at your local grocery store or senior center or drug store is managed by someone like me and I was meticulous indeed- in spite of some obstacles out of my control.
We also provided travel immunizations for a huge profit. The flu shot clinics were also hugely profitable for the company. It was this experience that led me to have far more curiosity about vaccines, what's really in them, what the adverse effects are, how they are transported and handled, and what the customer is actually getting.
And that brings us to the "cold chain" ...............or do you really want to go there?
Interesting you give no link to this MMR information. I'll give you some info with a link you can use to verify:
•By way of example, consider an actual measles outbreak in Colorado in December 1994.5 Out of 625 children exposed to the disease, 17 got measles. Of those 609 who had previously been vaccinated, only 10 (or 1.6%) developed measles. Of the 16 children who were not immunized, 7 (or 44%) developed measles. Thus, the risk for immunized children was less than 2% while the risk for unimmunized children was 44%.
With regard to measles, following the 1989 epidemic, a recommendation was made for two doses of vaccine. See below:
I'm sure you have excellent office manager skills. What is your degree in?
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They fund the "science" ... they lobby the congress and have the FDA in their pockets .... and they want desperately to have mandatory vaccines across the board ... it's incrementalism. HPV is just the latest venture.