Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
On the deepest level, the vice president was echoing, in slightly exaggerated form, an idea put forward a few years ago by Irving Kristol, the Godfather of the neoconservatives who have had such a wide-ranging effect on Bush administration policy. Kristol wrote then, and still believes, that "We should figure out what we want before we calculate what we can afford, not the reverse."
...
Which brings us to the economic level. The deficits that Bush ran up in the years in which the country was teetering on the verge of a serious recession had the beneficial effect of righting the economy. In that sense, deficits not only didn't matter, but were a force for economic good.
Recap of GOP thinking: When the president is a Republican, Keynesian policies are a tool in the shed. When the president is a Democrat, Keynesian policies are an ancient discredited theory.
With just a under a month until the deficit Super Committee must recommend policies that cut the 10 year deficit by $1.2 trillion, members of the Republican party — the same party that’s been on the war path for deep spending cuts, and that decries President Obama’s “failed stimulus” — are making uncharacteristic arguments against slashing spending. Trim too much, too quickly, they warn, and people will lose their jobs!
Call them Defense Keynesians — GOP members who represent defense interests, veterans, service members, contractors, and others whose livelihoods would be impacted by deep cuts to defense spending. They don’t want the Super Committee to cut much more, if any, from defense, and they certainly don’t want to pull the so-called “trigger” which would cut defense across the board by about $600 billion starting in 2013, if the panel gridlocks.
...
Kyl went on, “And here, with defense, for example, you’ve got high unemployment of returning veterans to begin with. You have reduction in end strength. You’ve got more people potentially unemployed. You got people making radios and building ships and so on. And if those cuts, therefore, end up reducing the employment in those industries and the amount of money spent in those areas, obviously it could delay economic recovery.”
From my reading, Republicans accept Keynesian principles unless they're diving into a new ridiculous principle of economics: government spending can’t create jobs, but cuts in government spending can destroy jobs — as long as the jobs are in the defense sector.
PS-Recall all the stimulus don't work Republicans who attended stimulus ribbon cuttings?
But in case others forgot...
Sessions wrote Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood in February urging him to give "full and fair consideration" to the affluent city's request for $81 million for a rail project,
leading members of Congress -- including Rep. Pete Sessions, Indiana Rep. Mike Pence, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, former presidential candidates John McCain and Ron Paul, and Tea Party favorites Michele Bachmann and Sen. Scott Brown - have discreetly requested stimulus funds despite their public opposition to the initiative.
I think we can all agree, our economy is in shambles and it's not getting better and doesn't look like it will get better for some time.
We all seem to be saying the same thing but in a slightly different manner.
One side says tax cuts and wars are what caused our problems. They quickly look to WWII spending spree for a solution (maybe not actual war).
The other side says we have taxes that are too high and regulations that are stifling.
Both of those positions have historically required massive deficit spending or a loss in revenues.
We're fighting the inevitable incline of the rest of the planet and a decline in our SOL. Either we drop down to the level of the rest of the planet -- meaning you'll have to give up you 98" LED T.V.s and such -- or we ask/force (trade negotiations or wars) them to come up to ours.
But you have to remember one clear and indisputable fact, China, alone, coming up to our standard of living would only reach about 2/3 of the way before all of the non-oil resources on the planet were used up.
You have a path that is clearly being defined for you and you clearly have no choice other then more wars or a larger conservation of the resources on the planet. For some reason I'm having a hard time thinking we will willingly give up our SOL.
Keynsian style successes: Denmark, Sweden, Finland
For a basic view of things. Before we get into the arguement of OMG THEY LIVE IN SMALL HOUSES or something equally as stupid these countries are always high in the rankings of development, education, infrastructure, life expectancy, etc. So trying to debunk any of these as a successful country is fairly hard and condenscending.
I think we can all agree, our economy is in shambles and it's not getting better and doesn't look like it will get better for some time.
We all seem to be saying the same thing but in a slightly different manner.
One side says tax cuts and wars are what caused our problems. They quickly look to WWII spending spree for a solution (maybe not actual war).
The other side says we have taxes that are too high and regulations that are stifling.
Both of those positions have historically required massive deficit spending or a loss in revenues.
We're fighting the inevitable incline of the rest of the planet and a decline in our SOL. Either we drop down to the level of the rest of the planet -- meaning you'll have to give up you 98" LED T.V.s and such -- or we ask/force (trade negotiations or wars) them to come up to ours.
But you have to remember one clear and indisputable fact, China, alone, coming up to our standard of living would only reach about 2/3 of the way before all of the non-oil resources on the planet were used up.
You have a path that is clearly being defined for you and you clearly have no choice other then more wars or a larger conservation of the resources on the planet. For some reason I'm having a hard time thinking we will willingly give up our SOL.
We live in a closed system. (The planet earth) It is time to open up the system or face the consequences.
Keynesian style successes: Denmark, Sweden, Finland
For a basic view of things. Before we get into the argument of OMG THEY LIVE IN SMALL HOUSES or something equally as stupid these countries are always high in the rankings of development, education, infrastructure, life expectancy, etc. So trying to debunk any of these as a successful country is fairly hard and condescending.
How about economies of scale?
Also, you seem to be dismissing SOL in those countries you want to claim as not successful, comparatively.
If that were the case, why are Singapore and Hong Kong some of the most densely populated places on the planet. (people voting with their feet)
Also, you'll need to answer for the overt racist policies of the Scandinavian countries and why they make no qualms about limiting immigration and require naked assimilation to their countries. That's something that seems to be very prevalent in socialist societies for them to be successful. Why, you ask? Because they know they have limited resources and knowing that they won;t be sharing with the "coloreds."
Last edited by BigJon3475; 10-29-2011 at 03:00 PM..
Modern economic theory is nothing more than religious dogma to justify the status quo. It is not a science. It is totally non-predictive, and therefore worthless.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
