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Old 09-28-2011, 10:41 AM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,083,971 times
Reputation: 11095

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If you have been hearing the term “job creators” a lot lately, it’s because Frank Luntz wanted you to.

As PBS put it, Luntz’s expertise is “testing language and finding words that will help his clients sell their products, or turn public opinion on an issue or a candidate.” In other words, propaganda.

Here are some actual examples of Luntz’s fine work:

Don’t say “oil drilling.” Say “energy exploration.”

Don’t say “inheritance tax.” Say “death tax.”

Don’t say “global warming.” Say “climate change.”

Don’t say “healthcare reform.” Say “government takeover.”

And don’t say “greedy, soulless multinational corporations who don’t give a damn about you.” Say “job creators.”

Luntz is like a serial killer of the English language.

FACT: In the last ten years, the population of the United States has grown by 27 million people.

FACT: There are one million fewer private sector jobs in America today than there were ten years ago.


So much for job creation. In fact, judging by employment, if the private sector were an employee, we’d have to fire him. For incompetence.

~Alan Grayson
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:17 AM
 
1,432 posts, read 1,089,856 times
Reputation: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Its amazing how the republicans put a spin on Obama wanting to raise taxes on millionaires. They say it will kill jobs. Obama's plan LOWERS taxes for businesses that would create jobs and his plan raises taxes on INDIVIDUALS who are millionaires. Is Warren Buffett using his personal income to create jobs? I don't think so. The majority of Americans agree that Obama should raise taxes on millionaires. They have more than enough money while middle class and lower class Americans are struggling paying most of the burden. Raising taxes on millionaires will put a huge dent in the deficit and they need to pay their fair share. Millionaires wont notice a thing. They still will have plenty of money to pump into the economy and they will continue to buy lavish items.
Yes, it will hurt jobs. For one, Millionares is not the same as a small business owner who has income of $250K. So, I assume it is ok, for the majority of non millionares to agree to take more money from others, so they can have more of it? So, I say who cares what people who want to mooch off others think. It is not yours, or the Govt. role to say, "they have more than enough money, so lets take it..give, me, give me, give me..." Raising taxes on high earners will not make a huge reduction in the national deb. Have you actually done the math? And what is fair share, high earners pay close to 50-60% of effective tax rates. How about those 40% of the folks who pay no income tax. Sure you will not aswer this with any substance, just some hand waving and dribble.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:20 AM
 
1,432 posts, read 1,089,856 times
Reputation: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
If you have been hearing the term “job creators” a lot lately, it’s because Frank Luntz wanted you to.

As PBS put it, Luntz’s expertise is “testing language and finding words that will help his clients sell their products, or turn public opinion on an issue or a candidate.” In other words, propaganda.

Here are some actual examples of Luntz’s fine work:

Don’t say “oil drilling.” Say “energy exploration.”

Don’t say “inheritance tax.” Say “death tax.”

Don’t say “global warming.” Say “climate change.”

Don’t say “healthcare reform.” Say “government takeover.”

And don’t say “greedy, soulless multinational corporations who don’t give a damn about you.” Say “job creators.”

Luntz is like a serial killer of the English language.

FACT: In the last ten years, the population of the United States has grown by 27 million people.

FACT: There are one million fewer private sector jobs in America today than there were ten years ago.

So much for job creation. In fact, judging by employment, if the private sector were an employee, we’d have to fire him. For incompetence.

~Alan Grayson
Chuckles, it is quite misleading if you take a 1 yr and 10 yr snap shot of jobs and use that as a baiss of argument. Most of the 10 yrs in between had much lower unemployment, meaning good economic times. To cherry pick and say that this data backs up your statement is ridiculous. I would rather have a 7-8 year good run, than go down the path of the current administration. Would much rather have less regulation and lower taxes.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,701 posts, read 17,004,072 times
Reputation: 22090
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post

Here are some actual examples of Luntz’s fine work:

Don’t say “oil drilling.” Say “energy exploration.”

Don’t say “inheritance tax.” Say “death tax.”

Don’t say “global warming.” Say “climate change.”

Don’t say “healthcare reform.” Say “government takeover.”

And don’t say “greedy, soulless multinational corporations who don’t give a damn about you.” Say “job creators.”
LOL! Reminds me of when store clerks became "associates".

Instead of getting a raise, you just get a fancy new job title.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,394,994 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
If you have been hearing the term “job creators” a lot lately, it’s because Frank Luntz wanted you to.

As PBS put it, Luntz’s expertise is “testing language and finding words that will help his clients sell their products, or turn public opinion on an issue or a candidate.” In other words, propaganda.

Here are some actual examples of Luntz’s fine work:

Don’t say “oil drilling.” Say “energy exploration.”

Don’t say “inheritance tax.” Say “death tax.”

Don’t say “global warming.” Say “climate change.”

Don’t say “healthcare reform.” Say “government takeover.”

And don’t say “greedy, soulless multinational corporations who don’t give a damn about you.” Say “job creators.”

Luntz is like a serial killer of the English language.

FACT: In the last ten years, the population of the United States has grown by 27 million people.

FACT: There are one million fewer private sector jobs in America today than there were ten years ago.

So much for job creation. In fact, judging by employment, if the private sector were an employee, we’d have to fire him. For incompetence.

~Alan Grayson
Let me get this straight: are you against energy exploration and job creators, and for death taxes and government takeover of healthcare?
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,294,925 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secchamps98 View Post
Yes, it will hurt jobs. For one, Millionares is not the same as a small business owner who has income of $250K. So, I assume it is ok, for the majority of non millionares to agree to take more money from others, so they can have more of it? So, I say who cares what people who want to mooch off others think. It is not yours, or the Govt. role to say, "they have more than enough money, so lets take it..give, me, give me, give me..." Raising taxes on high earners will not make a huge reduction in the national deb. Have you actually done the math? And what is fair share, high earners pay close to 50-60% of effective tax rates. How about those 40% of the folks who pay no income tax. Sure you will not aswer this with any substance, just some hand waving and dribble.
Really?? How do you think that millionaires got that way? Off of the backs of the poor and middle class. The last time that I checked I did not see any CEO's who are left companies with 50 million dollar "golden parachutes" after laying off half the company providing jobs to anyone. As far as the assumption that they are paying 50-60%, you are kidding right? This is the reason that they hire armies of tax lawyers and accountants so they can find write-offs and loop holes. Can you write off your corporate jet or your private yacht as a tax exemption?

If they are taxed more, so what! They have profitted well over the past 10 years and now it is time for them to pay their fair share and not what you think that they pay either
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,294,925 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secchamps98 View Post
Chuckles, it is quite misleading if you take a 1 yr and 10 yr snap shot of jobs and use that as a baiss of argument. Most of the 10 yrs in between had much lower unemployment, meaning good economic times. To cherry pick and say that this data backs up your statement is ridiculous. I would rather have a 7-8 year good run, than go down the path of the current administration. Would much rather have less regulation and lower taxes.
Do you consider the last 7-8 years a "good run?" Man, it must be nice. Apparently you were not in the military during that time, ask the average E1-E5 how much fun they had
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,294,925 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Duck View Post
... a part of the reason why the starting wage dropped so much is the fe3ar that ObamaCare is going to force this company into having to change the company health insurance policy.

but one thing to note about the wage drop

10 years ago when the wage started at $17.00 an hour minimum was 5.15

Today wage starts at 10.00 and minimum is 7.25
When Obama gave people a break on payroll tax
he ALSO SCREWED the employer and raised the employer's end of the cost on payroll tax

... and people wonder WHY no job's are created?

Ok, so how come unemployment was raising BEFORE Obama got into office AND while the rich were getting tax breaks? Obamacare was even concieved because he was just a senator. Come on you can't blame everything on the fear of something that did not even exist
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:30 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,083,971 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
LOL! Reminds me of when store clerks became "associates".

Instead of getting a raise, you just get a fancy new job title.
Exactly and The Tea/Neocon/Gop should henceforth be referred to as "The Semantic Party".
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:16 PM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
927 posts, read 1,455,724 times
Reputation: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Ok, so how come unemployment was raising BEFORE Obama got into office AND while the rich were getting tax breaks? Obamacare was even concieved because he was just a senator. Come on you can't blame everything on the fear of something that did not even exist
huh? you aren't following the WHOLE PICTURE?
This mess started as far back as 1913 with Woodrow Wilson and his stunt to amend the Constitution to allow for the Federal Reserve
Why do you think that Ron Paul said a gallon of gas actually cost us just one silver dime on the CNN debate?
BECAUSE according to the original Constitution our currency was supposed to be based on a silver weight and gold weight and a SILVER DIME is worth about $3.00 in silver as does our gallon of gas.
FIRST OFF LET ME SAY SOMETHING FOR THE RECORD AGAIN:
I was NOT a little Bush Supporter nor was I a McCain supporter.

In MY OPINION: we went from a RIDICULOUS Clinton to a TERRIBLE Bush to HORRENDOUS Obama.

Basing the problems on who was doing what:
Lets start with the housing issue:
This video has plenty of Dem's in this clip - Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis - YouTube (http://youtu.be/_MGT_cSi7Rs - broken link)
SO - the housing market starts to collapse ...
Then a hurricane wipes out a huge part of the flow of petroleum and fuel
So - what happens? GAS cost goes crazy - right?

Who gave a crap about the people who keep the economy running?

You add stretched middle and lower class budgets to increased gas and diesel costs and NO ONE up in D.C. gave a REAL crap. What did they do? Toss out a token gesture several hundred dollar check with NO honest interpretation as to what was going to be accomplished - small part of the nations personal debt was hopefully going to be assisted when people tried to bail out a credit card ... those D.C. clowns KNEW it wasn't going to do anything for the economy ... they were trying to reduce the impact of banking loss ... forget the people who powered the economy!

ALL OVER THE INTERNET people laughed at me when I said what we needed was government assistance to encourage FAST PAY RAISES so less people would belly up financially ... BUT THAT WAS AGAINST THE MASTER PLAN!

Master plan was to reduce OUR LABOR WAGES so third world countries can eventually afford to buy the junk we make.

Why do you think our textile industry is gone?
Because UNION Wages make the cost of a lousy pair of socks to expensive for us - not to mention the REST OF THE WORLD!

No ONE was able to continue buying our things over seas.

So - what has happened during THIS administration?

BANK BAILOUTS?
... and a bunch of Banks were bought up by other banks who got GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE ... and what about the People?
What did they do for us?

AUTO BAILOUTS?
Which came with job losses - remember Pontiac and Saturn are GONE!
... did you catch the last housing marketing stimulation stunt?

OOOO! 8 thousand dollars from the government to buy a house ...

.... BUT ...
they never said much about the fact that the $8,000.00 had to be paid back the next year on your taxes!
What did THIS ADMIN do good?

ObamaCare? So good that Pelosi was passing out WAIVERS so her supporters did NOT have to get trapped in that mess!

... the problem is both sides hope enough people BLINDLY follow their vague promises so they get re-elected.
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