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I agree. Some people seem to think that only 'conservatives' fought, for instance, in WWII. Of course, you had men of all political persuasions fighting for 'their' country. People may have different ideas about what is 'best' for this country, but most obviously were willing to fight and die to keep the country free so we could have different ideas.
Well, yeah, there were many in WW II that probably became liberal thinkers after the war but back then we had the military DRAFT and nobody had thought of running to Canada or Sweden as happened during the Vietnam farce. I think that when you consider the ages of those who fought that Big War and the fact that they were being taught primarily patriotic things in the public schools, not what is happening now, there may not have been so many liberal thinkers among them.
I guess so if I am understanding "daddy warbucks" term correctly. The war on terror meant to a soldier a call of duty in patriotism, which is noble. To the citizen it meant patriotism to supporting the soldier also noble. But for some it meant a money making opportunity and at this point, I think that more than anything keeps the war on terror going and even worse expanding.
As I said before I don't mind somebody being filty rich as long as they didn't step on others to get it. When a shareholder or corporation benefits by making others lose wages or even their life is where I say no. I doubt a shareholder of Bank of America cares that 3000 jobs were just laid off and that they went to a India center, as long as his personal profit increases. So what does that patriotic American shareholder have to say to the American who just lost their job, "not my problem" or "go start your own business then"?
"Go start your own business if you are out of a job" was pretty good advice in the days gone by and was a huge part of the American way. I did just that when I got laid off and couldn't get a job because of my age in 1986. Back then you didn't have to worry about what unseen and new taxes may come up to be a real setback for you. Today things are entirely different for small businesses just beginning. Do you remember the words of our leader about not taxing with new taxes back in 2008? I wonder how many people he actually fooled with that talk.
Anyone can differentiate patriotism from nationalism. Patriotism is a love for one's home country, and a desire for it to excel. Nationalism is a political agenda that uses patriotism as a tool to achieve its goals. Nationalism is about exclusivity, but patriotism is not.
What is the meaning of patriotism in a globalized world? The uber rich can be just as comfortable in a $5,000 dpd room at the Peninsula Hotel in Hong Kong as they can be at the Plaza in New York. When a Gulfstream V can get you anywhere in the world when ever you want, who cares about TSA, or when you business and financial interest travel across the internet at the speed of light.
The purpose of this thread isn't to bash the rich but to point out that for the very rich and powerful, allegiance to any one nation can be counter counterproductive and hostile to one's personal interest.
So what does patriotism mean in a global society for those who can avoid national boundaries at whim?
Yeah, that works well ....on paper.
1) Out of 6 billions, how many can take their jet from HK to NYC? Its all creation of the PR bubble machine. I frequently read in newspapers: "A New Trend - buyers flocking to buy reduced mansions in the Hamptons! Or "record price set at Christie's auction for Elisabeth Taylor's jewels!" Yeah, new trends indeed
2) The current globalization is a passing trend, since it contradicts basic human needs. It is a modern version of the biblical Tower of Babel and it will pass as others did before.
3) It is no coincidence that globalization grew at a time when the basic family disintegrated. It leaves us with supposedly 6 million lonely individuals in persuit of personal interests. However, if that was the basic human attitude (from day one) - we could not prosper as we did in the last 200,000 years. The human civilization exists only because we live in groups, cooperate and learn from each other. We have children to whom we pass our life experience and they continue from a certain level. It is not about money and "self" only. An example from our days: when someone in the late 70s, worked to invent the first personal computer, they didn't do it to buy personal jets or live at the Plaza in NY, because at that point there was no proof that money can be made at all of the new invention.
4) Patriotism, in certain forms, has the potential to be destructive, especially when fueled by fear. However, it is not much different than religions, communism, fascism, or other forms of "ism". That said, it doesn't have to be so.
What is the meaning of patriotism in a globalized world? The uber rich can be just as comfortable in a $5,000 dpd room at the Peninsula Hotel in Hong Kong as they can be at the Plaza in New York. When a Gulfstream V can get you anywhere in the world when ever you want, who cares about TSA, or when you business and financial interest travel across the internet at the speed of light.
The purpose of this thread isn't to bash the rich but to point out that for the very rich and powerful, allegiance to any one nation can be counter counterproductive and hostile to one's personal interest.
So what does patriotism mean in a global society for those who can avoid national boundaries at whim?
Well, Seinfeld's Kramer once said "buying retail is for suckers". But that's another issue. Anyway, these days in a global economy, a capitalistic philosophy makes for a division between one's country's economy, and one's corporate economy. The question is, In the true "American way", does a person support his country's economy, or the country's capitalistic philosophy? What is that, a catch-22? Or maybe it's a theoretical form of checkmate.
It's sort of like the hypothetical question, Do you tell your child to sing the national anthem in school, or do you tell your child to use the rights represented by the nationa anthem to refuse to sing?
I don't know how you can equate a lack of patriotism with liberalism. There are conservatives who aren't particularly patriotic. And there are liberals who love this country very deeply. You need to re-think this.
I don't need to rethink the statement at all. Anyone who has been through the public school system and participated at the university level for any length of time can attest to the fact that liberalism and patriotism are polar opposites. Of course there are exceptions (as you indicated) but those are just that: exceptions.
I don't need to rethink the statement at all. Anyone who has been through the public school system and participated at the university level for any length of time can attest to the fact that liberalism and patriotism are polar opposites. Of course there are exceptions (as you indicated) but those are just that: exceptions.
Actually, your argument is circular, rather than logical. You do need to re-think it. Liberals love their country just as much as conservatives do. Liberals argue for the Constitution. Conservatives argue for the Constitution. That they bring different perspectives and interpretations does not invalidate their love for the Constitution, for the United States, for the principles that guide our nation. In the same way that two parents might argue over what's best for a child, both loving the child with equal fervor, but having a different perspective.
DC is making too much sense to be understood by many. Thanks.
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