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Old 05-12-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,121 posts, read 15,680,828 times
Reputation: 8799

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
And I agree that many, if not the majority of poor people are there because of bad choices they made. So I take it that, in your view, people who have a job, no matter how low paying, are not poor?
One can always improve their employment circumstances if they are willing to work hard and do a good job. Almost no one "at the top" began where they are. There are examples all around us of entrepreneurs who started with an idea in their garage, and became CEO of their highly successful enterprise. I have known some personally (I have worked for them). One man I know (I don't know much about his background growing up) started a company building underwater photo cameras. Later he was also building TV cameras. I worked there in the eighties. Chuck Strickland is still building photo cameras at his current company, Photosea Systems (in San Diego), and one fellow I knew from Hydro Products is still with him at Photosea.

Look at Apple Computer. Their history is interesting. Two guys from Hewlett Packard building computers as a hobby. Now look where Apple is!
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:51 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,121 posts, read 15,680,828 times
Reputation: 8799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
Nice sarcastic post there. But really, tens of millions of Americans live below the poverty line, and tens of millions more live pretty close to it. And they didn't choose that life.

Would you choose a life of poverty?
Life can change unexpectedly, and life can be a challenge. Nothing is permanent, and every circumstance is changable. It takes work, but almost no one is "stuck" in poverty forever.

Have you heard Dr. Ben Carson's story?
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,640,321 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC
Nice sarcastic post there. But really, tens of millions of Americans live below the poverty line, and tens of millions more live pretty close to it. And they didn't choose that life.

Would you choose a life of poverty?
When you place blame instead of doing something to improve your conditions then yes, you are choosing that life. The poor run into difficulties they just give up and blame everything around them. They become part of the system. The middle class may do the same but they are forced to get back up and keep going.

The poor say "I can't" while the rich say "How can I".

Attitude makes a big difference. If you believe you can't then you won't. If you are taught to think like a poor man and do as poor man do you will be poor.

Last edited by eRayP; 05-12-2013 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
21,492 posts, read 10,415,620 times
Reputation: 7770
I have known all kind of poor people as I worked for the Welfare Department in income maintenance. I have seen my share of different poor people. No I don't dislike the poor.. I think the word hate is tossed around by the liberals without any merit to what they are saying.

Poor people who are truly poor really want to work but have had a run of bad luck and circumstances play a big part of that also. I truly feel for those who can't get ahead and have no doors open up for them. It is hard to find work in areas that are depressed and the main manufacturing has left. They deserve a helping hand.

Now on the other hand there are those who are clever and want to scam the system because it takes care of all their needs and they get some of their wants met too.. Working under the table and not being truthful. I know. I have seen it all.

Then their are those who truly do get off the system and it is not easy. The working poor are struggling now because the cost of living has gone up for all the necessities to live.. I don't like that .

The welfare department had all kinds of people coming in.. those who took their welfare check and instead of paying their rent bought what they wanted only to be evicted as if they were victims. They were not. The landlords would call the welfare department as if the welfare department was going to send them a check. We would tell them get it from the welfare recipient.

There were the drug addicts who didn't take proper care of their children and some had many kids to place.. Welfare is not all income. It is services too. They had workers who had to find places to put these poor kids whose parents were far gone on drugs. We would see clients who came to the welfare office to see their caseworkers and bringing their kids. They would be noticeably filthy and hair matted to their head. It was not a very pleasant job at times because of the woes of the people that affected their children.

Some of the case workers came from privileged backgrounds and acted as if it was a chore to take care of those coming in for an appointment. They seemed to me to be spoiled college educated elites who had distain for the poor people.

I was placed in many troubled areas to straighten out the problems with some management that had their share of slackers.. some caseworkers didn't want to work for their paycheck or to help the people. My boss was chief supervisor of income maintenance and he was no slacker. He had true compassion in helping everyone. He worked tirelessly with great respect and a heart for the people .. He worked diligently to get everyone seen quickly and gave a window of time to all the caseworkers to see every client on arrival. He didn't want anyone to wait when they made the step to ask for help. I respected that.

Those who need help should be helped .Some people just have the doors slam shut and they have no alternative but ask for help.. the safety net is there for them and it should always be there.. But many create their own problems with lack of responsibility and many children suffer. Money can't fix it .. that is not the answer. Taking responsibility for ones own actions is what is needed. If one can't learn or don't want to take responsibility , they usually stay on the system and demand to be taken care of. They never look to themselves as the reason they are in the position in the first place if they stay there and make it a way of life.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:10 PM
 
5,652 posts, read 5,115,896 times
Reputation: 10163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
I have known all kind of poor people as I worked for the Welfare Department in income maintenance. I have seen my share of different poor people. No I don't dislike the poor.. I think the word hate is tossed around by the liberals without any merit to what they are saying.

Poor people who are truly poor really want to work but have had a run of bad luck and circumstances play a big part of that also. I truly feel for those who can't get ahead and have no doors open up for them. It is hard to find work in areas that are depressed and the main manufacturing has left. They deserve a helping hand.

Now on the other hand there are those who are clever and want to scam the system because it takes care of all their needs and they get some of their wants met too.. Working under the table and not being truthful. I know. I have seen it all.

Then their are those who truly do get off the system and it is not easy. The working poor are struggling now because the cost of living has gone up for all the necessities to live.. I don't like that .

The welfare department had all kinds of people coming in..
And this is basically what I am getting at. People start talking about the topic generalizing about "the poor" and usually defining it as anyone using social services. But they all can't be painted with the same broad brush. People who work but don't make a living wage are different from the drug addicted who are different from those who have dropped out of society, some of whom ARE working illegally and some of whom aren't even doing that much. And the kids are a whole other story. But instead of discussing it in a nuanced way, people just assign the characteristics of one subset of the poor to ALL poor people, acting like those people are the majority when they are not necessarily. And in the end nothing changes.

I want to know what people think we should be doing for those who ARE working hard but find it difficult to make ends meet? What should happen to the people with addiction issues? What should happen to the people who are not trying? How should we allow their children to live? And how much money does each group really cost?
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:18 PM
 
16,714 posts, read 8,659,684 times
Reputation: 4694
Vote has consequences. "The poor" overwhelmingly voted for democrats and I hope they enjoy the consequences.

Oh wait until the 30 million illegals become legal. There will be absolutely no job for the poor. Again, enjoy the consequences.

I was dirt poor and I didn't have silver spoon in my mouth when I was born. My parents worked many low end jobs and made little money but they put us through college, and now I am far from being poor.

I have worked hard many years to get to where I am now.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:25 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,745,900 times
Reputation: 8928
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
And I agree that many, if not the majority of poor people are there because of bad choices they made. So I take it that, in your view, people who have a job, no matter how low paying, are not poor?

That's doubtful, since some of the homeless (probably about 15%) actually have jobs.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:35 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,745,900 times
Reputation: 8928
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Vote has consequences. "The poor" overwhelmingly voted for democrats and I hope they enjoy the consequences.

Oh wait until the 30 million illegals become legal. There will be absolutely no job for the poor. Again, enjoy the consequences.

I was dirt poor and I didn't have silver spoon in my mouth when I was born. My parents worked many low end jobs and made little money but they put us through college, and now I am far from being poor.

I have worked hard many years to get to where I am now.

I dispute your premise - got a cite? - but how many people (besides Warren Buffett, who can afford it) vote for candidates who think they're not paying enough taxes and want them to pay more taxes?

e.g. Michigan Republicans never met a regressive tax they didn't like.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:35 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,745,900 times
Reputation: 8928
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
One can always improve their employment circumstances if they are willing to work hard and do a good job. Almost no one "at the top" began where they are. There are examples all around us of entrepreneurs who started with an idea in their garage, and became CEO of their highly successful enterprise. I have known some personally (I have worked for them). One man I know (I don't know much about his background growing up) started a company building underwater photo cameras. Later he was also building TV cameras. I worked there in the eighties. Chuck Strickland is still building photo cameras at his current company, Photosea Systems (in San Diego), and one fellow I knew from Hydro Products is still with him at Photosea.

Look at Apple Computer. Their history is interesting. Two guys from Hewlett Packard building computers as a hobby. Now look where Apple is!

By definition, working and doing a good job do not improve the employment circumstances of those holding dead-end jobs.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,640,321 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
By definition, working and doing a good job do not improve the employment circumstances of those holding dead-end jobs.
So what exactly do YOU plan on doing about it? Do you actually think Obama will help?
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