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Old 10-08-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: maryland
3,967 posts, read 5,674,039 times
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Let the bush era tax cuts expire and use the money in a pool to help people from foreclosing on their houses, and give small businesses wanting to expand low interest loans.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:14 AM
 
Location: TX and NM on the border of the Great Southwest.
11,776 posts, read 15,796,948 times
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With 87,000 miles of new tracks needed, there's no way the government could not be involved for the many right-of-ways and easements that would be needed. Also concerns over species habitat disruption, water quality issues, environmental justice issues would trigger Federal and state environmental rules and laws. The state and Federal environmental studies (NEPA, ESA, all the state corresponding environmental laws, etc.) required for such an undertaking would easily cost more than a million dollars per mile in many areas of the U.S.

Last edited by High_Plains_Retired; 10-08-2011 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:22 AM
 
9,857 posts, read 6,733,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I'd be interested in an electric car as an around town second car however living downtown in an apartment theres nowhere to plug it in..
Electric cars often get plugged into walls where the energy is supplied by coal, oil and natural gas.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
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{} Tax exemption versus Taxpayer subsidy
If the Rail Renaissance demonstrates that a business does best when left alone, perhaps the zero tax status can be extended to ALL American industries and laborers. Of course, that means the end to socialism, to income transfer, to "legal bribery" of the electorate, and the vast fortunes squandered by the "honorable pirates" in office.
{} Transportation
I noted that there were few cogent objections to electric traction rail. That is a good sign.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired View Post
With 87,000 miles of new tracks needed, there's no way the government could not be involved for the many right-of-ways and easements that would be needed. Also concerns over species habitat disruption, water quality issues, environmental justice issues would trigger Federal and state environmental rules and laws. The state and Federal environmental studies (NEPA, ESA, all the state corresponding environmental laws, etc.) required for such an undertaking would easily cost more than a million dollars per mile in many areas of the U.S.
Good point.
[] Codicil to the initiative : repeal / abolish / ignore all Fed / State "Environmental" rules / laws where there is already a rail right of way or there was once one there and abandoned. We have no time to waste.

[] Better yet, repeal all "environmental" regs and laws that infringe upon private property owners.

[] Urban streetcars won't impact species habitat unless pigeons and rats are an endangered species. Interurban rail service probably won't impinge upon pristine nature, either. Mainline rail rights of way are already there - just need to electrify them.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: TX and NM on the border of the Great Southwest.
11,776 posts, read 15,796,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
{} Tax exemption versus Taxpayer subsidy.
I'm not a National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) lawyer but I played one when I was working.

Seriously though, I am almost sure that NEPA requirements have been determined to have been triggered in the past simply for the fact that the Federal government enabled a major proposal or action, e.g., by tax exemption.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep View Post
But what you leave out is that government needs to change it's attitudes toward businesses in general. They need to reduce the regulations that choke companies and that keep them from expanding.
I suggest that you read law, and pay attention to jurisdiction and venue.

For most regulatory laws, the power to govern comes from consent of the governed.
FEDERAL CORPORATIONS - The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.
- - - Volume 19, Corpus Juris Secundum XVIII.
Foreign Corporations, Sections 883,884

"The United States and the State of California are two separate sovereignties, each dominant in its own sphere."
Redding v. Los Angeles (1947), 81 C.A.2d 888, 185 P.2d 430.

"We have in our political system a government of the United States and a government of each of the several States. Each one of these governments is distinct from the others, and each has citizens of it's own..."
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)

"A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government ..."
Kitchens v. Steele, 112 F.Supp 383

"The term resident and citizen of the United States is distinguished from a Citizen of one of the several states, in that the former is a special class of citizen created by Congress."
U.S. v. Anthony 24 Fed. 829 (1873)
Write a polite letter to your congressman and ask how a foreign corporation (U.S. government) has jurisdiction over private business in your state. Especially when the USCON states that the Federal government has to ASK PERMISSION to acquire lands, etc, in any state.
What constitutional clause empowers those regulatory laws?
Is it the State of Emergency (since 1933)?
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 22,971,089 times
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Why stop there? How about we all go back to horses? We could stop paving roads with asphalt and let the roads go back to dirt and grass. Horses don't need oil. Horse drawn wagons to be used for transporting thing across country. Put some out of work NFL players (since they can no longer drive or fly to games) to work as blacksmiths for horse shoes. We'd make lawn care go back to manual tools, no electric nor gas powered tools. Lumberjacks would go back to hand saws instead of gas powered chain saws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The U.S. has approximately 260 million vehicles consuming petroleum fuel at a rate of roughly 19 million barrels / day... or 7 billion barrels / year.
The U.S. spent $337 billion in 2010 on oil imports.

Energy in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

71% of Petroleum is used for transportation
[] 19 million barrels / day consumption
BUT domestic production is only 6 million barrels per day
[] Import 13 million barrels /day (68%)

If the people of the United States wish to remain hostage to the automobile / petroleum / highway self-interest group, do nothing.

On the other hand, America could stimulate the economy in a most dramatic way - by transitioning to electric traction rail transportation.

Transitioning to rail for 80% of all trips, means an 80% reduction in the 71% of petroleum consumed for transportation.
(19 million x .71 = 13.5 million barrels / day)
Reduce by 80%
(13.5 x .20 = 2.7 million barrels / day)
Domestic production = 6 million barrels / day
(6 x .71 = 4.26 million barrels/day available for transportation)
Result : no need for imports - save BILLIONS

To provide alternate transportation for 80% of the current automobile / bus bound passengers, an estimated 280 thousand train cars will be needed. At 1.1 million per car, that's $308 billions. In addition to electrifying mainline tracks, we would also need to construct urban and interurban tracks (where they were torn out). Let's say we need about 87,000 miles. At $900k per mile, that comes to roughly $78.3 billions. Total : $387 billions roughly.

To put that in perspective, in 2010, we EXPORTED $337 billions for our "oil fix". That's money not spent on American jobs nor American products.

But how can we pay for it?

We must insist that government have NOTHING to do with it. If government is involved, odds are that it will be more wasteful, fraught with graft and corruption, bound with red tape and delayed to the max.

Solution is simple - instead of tax grants, loans or other tax payer funds, grant ZERO TAX LIABILITY for any company (and its employees) that is 100% involved in designing, manufacturing, building, installing, operating, and / or repairing electric traction rail transportation.

It doesn't take administrative overhead to account for "not taxing", it eliminates government paperwork. It simplifies management and operation. It will draw investors seeking tax exempt profits. It will attract workers, too. Expanding existing rail rights of way or reclaiming abandoned rail lines should speed up the process, too.

With 100% tax exemption, American railroad manufacturing will ramp up rapidly. And no company will be rewarded for its skill at manipulating its bookkeeping to keep the tax man at bay - no tax man! If a company wants to make the most profits, it will do so only by providing the best service to the most customers, not how well its upper management schmooze government regulations and grants.

Assuming that half of that $387 billions is used in hiring labor, at $30k / annum (tax exempt, no less), that would result in 6,450,000 new jobs.
Last week, it was estimated that 14 million people were out of work.

Of course, with 6.5 million new workers, all the support industries and auxiliary enterprises would be boosted, too. It will boost food service, house construction, consumer spending, etc., etc. That means more hiring, ditto, ditto.

America once built an electric traction rail transportation system, between 1890 - 1910, with far less technology. Sadly, GM and others, helped sabotage it. It may have made sense when the USA was queen of oil, but no longer.

http://saveourwetlands.org/streetcar.htm (broken link)
In 1921, GM lost $65 million, leading GM to conclude that the auto market was saturated, that those who desired cars already owned them, and that the only way to increase GM's sales and restore its profitability was by eliminating its principal rival: electric railways.
At the time, 90 percent of all trips were by rail, chiefly electric rail; only one in 10 Americans owned an automobile. There were 1,200 separate electric street and interurban railways, a thriving and profitable industry with 44,000 miles of track, 300,000 employees, 15 billion annual passengers, and $1 billion in income. Virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system.
Do you think it's time for America to get back on track?
ASAP?
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: TX and NM on the border of the Great Southwest.
11,776 posts, read 15,796,948 times
Reputation: 22443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Good point.
[] Codicil to the initiative : repeal / abolish / ignore all Fed / State "Environmental" rules / laws where there is already a rail right of way or there was once one there and abandoned. We have no time to waste.

[] Better yet, repeal all "environmental" regs and laws that infringe upon private property owners.

[] Urban streetcars won't impact species habitat unless pigeons and rats are an endangered species. Interurban rail service probably won't impinge upon pristine nature, either. Mainline rail rights of way are already there - just need to electrify them.
Sorry but I answered your first comment before seeing this one.

You might get NEPA, ESA, and all the other laws repealed under a sympathetic Administration and Congress but to ignore them totally would simply delay your project and eventually place you in front of the U.S. Supreme Court.

At a superficial examination, it would appear that development of existing urban rail lines would not significantly affect anything unless you had to extend the boundaries of, or add to, those lines. Electrifying lines that were not previously electrified may add some concerns for human safety in some areas but only a detailed examination could determine that.

Electrifying previously non-electric rail lines in surburban and rural areas becomes problematic since human and wildlife safety would seem to be pertinent issues for closer examination. Most of the rural rail lines that I am aware of in rural areas are essentially open lines that are unprotected.

Understand that I am only playing devil's advocate here and only offer comments that you would very likely encounter from the public on such a proposal.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Why stop there? How about we all go back to horses? We could stop paving roads with asphalt and let the roads go back to dirt and grass. Horses don't need oil. Horse drawn wagons to be used for transporting thing across country. Put some out of work NFL players (since they can no longer drive or fly to games) to work as blacksmiths for horse shoes. We'd make lawn care go back to manual tools, no electric nor gas powered tools. Lumberjacks would go back to hand saws instead of gas powered chain saws.
Frankly, if the SHTF, your dream may become reality. We may have to go back to the 1890s in technology.
Oh, right, electric traction rail WAS 1890s high tech.

OOPS.
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