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Old 10-15-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well with a world economy in bad shape their some sense of a common theme, potentially even cause but this is not a new phenomenon.

My persoanl challenge with the protestors is their whoa is me attitude without offering up a solution nor a commitment for themselves to work hard to fix it. It seems more a blame others and have them fix it attitude. Now i am generalizing but outside of logistics as i stated earlier I am failing to see a uniqueness nor exectution and commitment of such by the participants.

I am not looking for some magic bullet on economic or fiscal application but somehow to me this lacks a cohesive substance, like a modern day be-in so-to-speak and instead of make love not war it appears stop corporate greed and pay my bills that I made a conscious choice to take on. There very well may come good out of this and that isnt my point, but I keep trying to figure out what is the point of this movement. I am failing to see a tangibility


Now I'm sure not all of the protesters are this clueless...but this is one of the primary reasons I do not support their movement. The other reason is that I'm not sure exactly what they stand for in the first place...

I'd like to compare their movement to the underpants gnomes on South Park:

Replace "Collect underpants" with "Protest", replace "Profit" with "Social Change." The question mark remains the same. How do you get there?

These people want things to change,but they have no idea how to do it...so they've resorted to demanding that their financial needs be satisfied (for whatever reason). Wall Street gets a bailout...so why don't we? They got theirs, where's mine? Why are they protesting the banks and not the government?

The other thing that strikes me odd about this movement is the "99%" idea that keeps getting thrown around. "If you're not one of us, you're one of them." I'm sorry, but I can never get behind this sort of divisive, destructive sort of talk. I don't like the idea of vilifying a certain demographic of society...because history tells me the next step isn't something we want to see here.

I do not oppose the idea of protesting Wall Street...though I think what they have done goes hand in hand with what the government has done, or allowed them to do. The problem I have with this movement is that there is a lot of focus on individual protester's demands. Why? If you believe that these banks got something they didn't deserve, why would you demand something in return that you don't deserve? Two wrongs don't make a right. You're better than that.

Until that fundamental aspect of this movement changes, I won't be sending any sympathy their way.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,829 posts, read 9,835,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian View Post
Yeah... the global economy is effecting everywhere, we are adjusting to globalization. If unemployment was lower you wouldn't be seeing this, they wouldn't be complaining about people being rich. Personally, I don't see anything wrong at all with rich people. And these same people praise Warren Buffet and Steve Jobs on one hand paying for internet connections, cell phone plans, new iphones, yet get mad at the more faceless bankers on the other? How do they think these people they supposedly look up to made their money??? Trust me, these public CEO's they look up to are more cut throat, more egotistical, maniacal and greedy than the people they are protesting against which are often just hard working folks who took the right steps, went to HYPCS, (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Chicago, Stanford) and now are just reaping the rewards. Many were busting their a$$ on homework when they were 10 while a bunch of these protesters weren't doing anything. I just don't see many truly intelligent people out protesting, it's more of an 'everyman', 'populist' movement...leaves a distaste in my mouth, even though I'm not rich myself or a top earner, I know many people that are and yes, they are generally much more intelligent and harder workers than your average person. Populism and community hard work efforts are just against my thoughts altogether. I'm much more of the belief that a few true genius individuals have impacted change in the world, and putting restraints on them is not the way to go. Populism never got us very far. You want to see the efforts of all these economic policies they are proposing? Just take a look at Michigan, they were preaching the same thing in the 70s.
I understand where you are coming from and agree that many ultra-wealthy (remember this is only 1% of the population that controls nearly 50% of American wealth) people have worked hard for their wealth but also many are just family legacies and inheritances. But this is more about corporations and how they control politics.

I think taxing the ultra-rich at the same rate as everyone else and eliminating the carried interest tax loophole is a good start but we also need to take a look at business ethics. Some corporations have more power/political clout than foreign countries and it effects the economy in negative ways. Do you see nothing wrong with American corporations keeping their wealth offshore tax free, outsourcing cheap labor while cutting thousands of jobs for Americans all while posting never before seen profit margins and all while making their money almost exclusively off Americans? Do you see nothing wrong with Bank of America receiving Billions in taxpayer money with the premise of putting some money back into the economy and later cutting 40,000 jobs and still not giving out loans? we have let these companies get too powerful and they are now effectively destroying our country. These issues have always been around although they have been put to light due to the recession and the fact that the power and wealth of many corporations is unseen. I have student loans and do not expect anyone to pay them for me. I do not agree with that aspect of the protest (if it even is an aspect) although the general business and prevalance of student loans has allowed college tuition to increase dramatically the past 20 years to today where college tuition is almost not worth the cost if you work full time 4 years instead of going to school.


"The gains we made in the United States that have made our country great have, in large part, been made over the opposition of major corporations. On nearly every issue, from fair labor standards, to the minimum wage, to environmental standards, to standards for a safe workplace, corporations have fought against them every step of the way."
Senator Byron L. Dorgan

"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln


"President Eisenhower saw it coming, and it is here. Patriotism no longer exists among many of these corporations. Some companies have more economic clout than entire countries. They can make or break a politician." Senator Byron L. Dorgan

Last edited by 2e1m5a; 10-15-2011 at 10:54 AM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:02 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dub King View Post
Come on, the Federal Govt. pays $1.2 million in interest on its debt every single day. The Solyndra money therefor equals 11 hours of interest on our debt. You're really going to complain about that? Try looking at Iraq and the Bush tax cuts to see where billions upon billions of dollars have been wasted. I hope they take Rupert Murdoch right out of his home and they tar and feather the man (perhaps a modern version using Elmers Glue and fake feathers). Mob justice.

Just drove by the 'Occupy Philly" camp & it's huge. For once I think the plutocrats have a real problem om their hands.
I've been throught the Occupy Philly...lots of arrogant white kids. The park its in was overrun by the homeless; now at least you can walk throught it at night.
One interesting thing is happening there however; now that spoiled white kids have moved-in on the homeless. For starters, "my laptop was stolen please return it my schoolwork is on it'' sign; young white female sexually assualted by crazy homeless man - she took off crying and left the ''occupation'' while the perp was ranting in the face of some white 20 year ''safety'' patrol. Somebody is going to get hurt there...plus I saw more than one of the street people there...hope 'dem white girls got locks on those tents!
So what do banks have to do with the tax cuts and Iraq? What about handing out $8,000 to people to buy a home and when the credit lapsed, the housing market went back to where it was and worse. I love how you downplay $563 million thrown away to a bankrupt company as a political favor...Mr. O is from Chicago and no one can come out of that place with clean hands. What a shame Valerie Jarrett didn't get to cash-in on the Olympics being built in the area she has real estate interests in...What happened to the $1 trillinion dollar+ spending-where are the jobs?
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:09 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
It is odd that it looks like largely middle-class people complaining about the life of the poor. I mean it's nice they care in a way, but too often they do come out a tad clueless.

Maybe there are some actual poor among them and the real poor people are just less photogenic so ignored by reporters. I'm traditionally a bit on the Right, but there are at least kids who are poor due to no fault of their own. And there are veterans who have trouble finding work or regular families that got ripped off by events beyond their control. Not sure what you do on that though.
It's the same old arrogance...middle to upper class suburban white kids trying to be ''down'' with the people...telling them what they need and what they should or should not be doing...those poor people don't want these white kids telling them how they should live...could be that white guilt thing but who knows...the whole time they're getting their pockets picked, laptops stolen, there is even a box sitting on a table full of cash donations...wonde if it's still there...
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:00 PM
 
816 posts, read 1,531,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
It's the same old arrogance...middle to upper class suburban white kids trying to be ''down'' with the people...telling them what they need and what they should or should not be doing...those poor people don't want these white kids telling them how they should live...could be that white guilt thing but who knows...the whole time they're getting their pockets picked, laptops stolen, there is even a box sitting on a table full of cash donations...wonde if it's still there...
Yeah, I generally hate that... It's caused a big clash in my life as I grew up with not too much and white, but a lot of my social circles by default are upper middle class white b/c of schooling/workplace. Can't stand it really, they are so out of touch sometimes it is frightening. I've also big fallouts with many of my academic friends, I'm very aware of ivory tower attitudes. They should actually go live in the ghetto for awhile or in a third world country and see how the "real world" works. For this reason I have a lot of black/south american/asian/non-american friends. It's a big reason I like major metros from people of all walks of life and stick away from the suburbs and smaller less diverse areas of the u.s., too damn sterile and sheltered, disconnected from reality.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:27 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian View Post
Yeah, I generally hate that... It's caused a big clash in my life as I grew up with not too much and white, but a lot of my social circles by default are upper middle class white b/c of schooling/workplace. Can't stand it really, they are so out of touch sometimes it is frightening. I've also big fallouts with many of my academic friends, I'm very aware of ivory tower attitudes. They should actually go live in the ghetto for awhile or in a third world country and see how the "real world" works. For this reason I have a lot of black/south american/asian/non-american friends. It's a big reason I like major metros from people of all walks of life and stick away from the suburbs and smaller less diverse areas of the u.s., too damn sterile and sheltered, disconnected from reality.
I hear ya...you have more in common with people who struggle of all colors...but being white, no one really cares because you are white. Total double-standard going on at these "occupations"...don't ask too many questions and you'll be OK...it's the total ''Jane Fonda or Hanoi Jane" syndrome...totally naive...
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:31 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian View Post
Yeah, I generally hate that... It's caused a big clash in my life as I grew up with not too much and white, but a lot of my social circles by default are upper middle class white b/c of schooling/workplace. Can't stand it really, they are so out of touch sometimes it is frightening. I've also big fallouts with many of my academic friends, I'm very aware of ivory tower attitudes. They should actually go live in the ghetto for awhile or in a third world country and see how the "real world" works. For this reason I have a lot of black/south american/asian/non-american friends. It's a big reason I like major metros from people of all walks of life and stick away from the suburbs and smaller less diverse areas of the u.s., too damn sterile and sheltered, disconnected from reality.
I've posted about this before, as an example, when forced busing was the all rage in '70s, all those white liberals from the suburbs came into the cities to point fingers at whites, especially ethnic whites in the northern cities and jumped back in their BMWs to get to the country club by 5:00pm for cocktail conversation about their ''social activism''...while their kids go to private or public suburban schools smoking weed 24/7.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:38 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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This whole financial mess has many layers of blame; one being the theory that everyone should own a home. No, not everyone should own a home. Same thing going on with college graduation rates; everyone needs a college degree. This is great in theory but not everyone cna get a degree-now it's all on-line degrees etc...it's great to learn but college degrees on-line are suspect. Home ownership rates went from 64% to 69% and now it's going back to where it was and should have been: 64%.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:40 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,866 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I think they're referring to the "Occupy Wall Street" movement and its equivalents.

Occupy Wall Street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Occupy Together*|*Home
Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for American Revolution

Calling it "a scene", like it's a new dance or club culture, did strike me as a bit odd too.
They used to call these things ''happenings'' then came the ''love-ins'' in the 1960s.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,920 posts, read 11,888,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
It's the same old arrogance...middle to upper class suburban white kids trying to be ''down'' with the people...telling them what they need and what they should or should not be doing...those poor people don't want these white kids telling them how they should live...could be that white guilt thing but who knows...the whole time they're getting their pockets picked, laptops stolen, there is even a box sitting on a table full of cash donations...wonde if it's still there...

Honestly it depends what city you're in... that describes San Francisco's to a T but the one in Oakland couldn't be more different.


But sadly that also describes the politicians... the vast majority of politicians don't have a clue what issues their constituency actually deals with... they're just talking heads.
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